--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Reggie Bautista wrote: > > Nick wrote:
> > >You (plural) don't believe that Jesus is fully > human? > > > > I could be wrong since my beliefs have moved > somewhat away from mainstream > > Catholic thought, but I believe the official > Catholic party line is that > > Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, just > as the eucharist is both > > fully bread and wine but also is fully the body > and blood > > (see http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm for a > good discussion of this, > > especially the section about "substance" vs. > "accidents"). > > Something I've been wondering about -- what do > various denominations > teach about transubstantiation, anyway? I > understand what the Catholic > stance is; what about Lutherans? Or Methodists? Or > any other? An ELCA article about Communion neatly evaded the parsing out of this question, although I distinctly remember that the differences were a big deal when I went through Confirmation classes back in the early '70s: http://www.elca.org/dcm/worship/faq/communion/distribution.html "...We actually eat the Lord’s body, and we drink the Lord’s blood. It is an eschatological feast, that is, a foretaste of the heavenly banquet. These facts shape how the elements are distributed. There are several possible modes of distribution. All of them assume that the elements are always handled with reverence and dignity, for they are the living Christ (Apology of the Augsburg Confession, article XXIV). Lutherans call the elements the means of grace, for through the eating and drinking we receive nothing less than the absolute presence of Jesus Christ. And we become what we eat, little Christs..." Yet this is not transubstantiation,* rather consubstantiation: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consubstantiation "Consubstantiation is one of the beliefs held by Christians about the Eucharist. It holds that during the sacrament the Body of Christ enters the bread, and the Blood of Christ enters the wine, but they continue to be also bread and wine. Today some Christian churches (notably the Anglican Churches, Lutheran Churches) (others?) profess the doctrine of Consubstantiation." Alternatively (both below from this on-line theological dictionary): http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm#Consubstatiation "It means an inclusion of one substance in another where the body and blood of Christ co-exist in the elements of the Supper. It suggests that a third substance is formed. The body and blood of Christ are "in, with, and under" the elements. There is no permanent relationship with the elements. Instead, the association is limited to the sacramental action. The transformation is effected by the Word of God and not by a priest." * transubstantiation: "The theory accepted by Catholicism, that in the Lord's Supper, the elements are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus. However, there is no perceptible or measurable change in the elements. The transformation occurs during the Mass at the elevation of the elements by the priest." AFAIK, nearly all other Protestant denominations focus on Communion more "as remembrance of me [Jesus]," rather than any actual change or spiritual presence in the bread and wine (or, as in one church I attended with a friend, some type of watered-down Kool-Aid tasting liquid :P ). Debbi Word Salad Shmorgasborg Maru :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
