----- Original Message ----- From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: Re: The Vatican and the US elections
> At 01:38 PM 3/28/2004 -0600 Robert Seeberger wrote: > >Anti Catholic bigotry? > > Yes. The idea that the Catholic Church could exert Authoritarian control > over the US is one of the oldest saws of anti-Catholic bigots. Of which I am not! > > To say nothing of your sickening insult. Only you seem to see it as an insult, and I think that is because you really really want to. > > >For the Vatican (and note that I am differentiating between the > >Vatican, which is in some ways a foriegn nation, and the American > >Catholic church) to try to influence *our* elections is wrong. > > That is funny, Mr. Seeberger, because in that article almost all of the > references were to officials in the Catholic Church of the United States. > The only reference to the Vatican I found in the article was the following: > > The Vatican issued last year a "doctrinal note" warning Catholic lawmakers > that they have a "grave and clear obligation to oppose any law that attacks > human life. > For them, as for every Catholic, it is impossible to promote such laws > or to vote for them." > > So, Mr. Seeberger do you really mean to imply that it is *wrong* for the > Catholic Church to make such a statement? Please keep in mind that this > doctrinal note was issued to the universal Church, and was not even issued > in the same year as the United States' election. If the POTUS were President only over Catholics, such a doctrine would be A-OK. But since the POTUS is President over just about every kind of person that exists on earth, it is a most definate NO. The Vatican has no business whatsoever trying to influence secular governance. Even Jesus said "Render unto Caesar" > > Or do you wish to admit that you weren't really making such a fine > distinction after all? Who tells the Bishops what to say John? I can tell you it isn't George Bush, or John Kerry, or even Jim Carrey. No, those orders come straight from the Vatican, and the Vatican needs to stay out of America's business. > > Additionally, on what basis are you accusing the Vatican of, quote, > "influencing our election?" I saw no evidence of this accusation in > your article. All I saw were some statements of American Catholic Church > officials noting that John Kerry is not a member in good standing of the > Catholic Church. Or do you think that it is wrong for the Catholic Church > to note if certain public officials are members in good standing of its > organization? ""Kerry told TIME in an interview aboard his campaign plane on Saturday, the first in which he has discussed his faith extensively. "We have a separation of church and state in this country. As John Kennedy said very clearly, I will be a President who happens to be Catholic, not a Catholic President." "" The attitude that you and St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke espouse is likely to drive more people from the Church. That the Church does not run the western world anymore doesn't seem to sunk into some heads. > > >Your penchant for jumping to weird and extreme conclusions is getting > >the better of you. > >I posted "news" that the Vatican and individuals *controlled* by the > >Vatican are involving themselves in our election. > > Mr. Seeberger, please do not try and change the subject. You posted that > [the Catholic Church is an] "Axis of Authoritarianism." I did not > object to your posting of the article. I objected to your extremely > offensive remarks after the article. > John, are you trying to claim that the Catholic Church, from top to bottom, is not authoritarian? Don't be ridiculous. xponent _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
