At 08:51 PM 3/28/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
>> Your raising the old saws about Catholic plots to take over the country
>>is
>> tantamount to prohibiting the Catholic Church from freely exercising its
>> relgion. Under your principles, the Catholic Church could not
>> disassociate itself from any person claiming to be a member of this
>>Church.
>
>You do know the historical context, right. Excommunication was a political
>tool of the Catholic church. While it was not used quite as shamefully as
>selling a quick entry into heaven, it wasn't a shining moment.
The Catholic Church has committed all sorts of mistakes in the past.
These mistakes are irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Church
has the right of freedom of association with prominent individuals who are
simultaneously claiming to be members and articulating personal beliefs
they consider to be consistent with membership.
>The traditional dividing line is that church leaders have every right to
>preach principals, such as abortion being wrong and sinful. They have the
>right to argue it shouldn't be legal. But, wielding the tool of
>excommunication presumes that the church belongs to the Vatican. It
>doesn't.
This is a bit extreme since excommunication is usually handled by the
bishop, not the Vatican. But other than that, you seem to be suggesting
that excommunications should no longer practically exist. I totally
disagree with that, although I can respect your Protestant viewpoint on that.
>John, can you actually believe that, for the last 25 years or so, bishops
>were not subjected to absolute loyalty and lack of differences with the
>pope on all his key issues (unlike the three previous popes.) Older
>bishops are not thrown out for not towing the party line, but they
>certainly aren't favored. By now, there are few moderate bishops left.
This is definitely not true. The nation's oldest Catholic newspaper, The
Wanderer, is chock full of examples of bishops engaging in activities which
that paper believes merits their removal from office. For example, in
some dioceses it is common to make the "Sign of the Cross" in an unusual
way: "in the name of the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sanctifier."
These examples don't appear to be limited to older bishops either.
Another prominent example includes the many bishops who permitted the
introduction of female altar servers without Vatican approval. Other
issues of controversy include the role of liturgical dance, music using
drums and guitars, and attitudes towards homosexuality. There are many
lively debates ongoing in the Catholic Church right now.
JDG
_______________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world,
it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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