All true, but the question remains of when did the first 23FD did ship?  
Apparently the 2880 Block Multiplexor Channel along with the 2835/2305 were 
announced on February 10, 1970 for both the S/360 M85 and M195. 

There are reliable sources that a 23FD did ship in January 1971 either in the 
M155 or in a 2835/2305; perhaps simultaneously to the same location.  

It could have shipped in a 2835/2305 for a S/360 M85 before January 1971 on a 
2880 Block Multiplexor Channel but so far I can't find any information either 
way.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2026 6:39 PM
To: Jon Elson via cctalk <[email protected]>
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Floppy disk

The 360/85 had the microcode for its base instruction set in ROS (ROM) so it 
would not have needed a device like the 23FD to get started.  It was also 
shipped starting in December 1969 which is before the date the 23FD is reputed 
to have been ready.   A paper I found at
https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/1476936.1476969 describes instructions in 
the the 360/85 to load words into the writeable control store from main memory. 
  The 370 systems on the other hand had no control store in ROS so needed a 
device to do the Initial Microcode Load
(IML) to get the machine of the ground and I suspect the 23FD and later IML 
microcode sources where just part of the IML  system as something would have to 
stuff the microcode into the control store.  I see some
370 documents mention a "Service Processor" that loads the microcode, one 
candidate for this service processor would be one of the family of Universal 
Controllers that IBM used in a wide variety of machines dating back to the 
early to mid 1970s.

Paul.

On 2026-06-09 20:21, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 6/9/26 16:24, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:
>> Lot's of mis-information which I think I correct below
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the first shipments of the 23FD was in January 1971 
>> the with 2835 Storage Control Unit for the 2305 Fixed Head DASD and 
>> the S/370 M155; it might have been simultaneous but the 2835 did 
>> attach to existing S/360 M85 2880 Block Multiplexer channel and the
>> M85 shipped in December 1969. It was followed later that year with 
>> the shipment in the S/370 M165 and then the rest of the S/370.  FWIW, 
>> the 2835 SCU was very similar to the 3380 SCU, mainly differing due 
>> to the parallel data transfer from the drive.  The 23FD was a read 
>> only device
>
> The 360/85 was EXTREMELY close to the 370/165, in fact it was the 
> prototype of the 165.  Looking through principles of operation from 
> the two models shows instruction timings are totally identical.  The 
> model 165 had a 23FD to load microcode and diagnostics.  The 360/85 
> had read-only 360 microcode, but emulators and diagnostics were 
> loadable.  I can only assume that was done via a 23FD.  The major 
> difference between 360/85 and 370/165 hardware was that microcode was 
> partially read-only in the 85, with 500 words or writeable control 
> store, implemented in 16-bit MST4 chips.  The 165 had all microcode in 
> writable ECL static RAM in 64-bit chips.  The /85 cache (storage
> buffer) was implemented in the same 16-bit chip technology, the 165 
> was done with the 64-bit chips.  There were some slight differences in 
> the 360 vs. 370 processor status word, also.
>
> Jon
>
>

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