David: Essentially I am stumped. For a third party to have any chance for success it has to peel off not only some Republicans but some Democrats as well. But what group or groups ? Damned if I know even if there are some possibilities, like Jewish voters, or Asians.
A third party would need a charismatic ( in the political sense ) leader who can appeal across party lines. NOT simply another Perot with a ton of money and some ideas, Well, I am not completely depressed with the Democrats, enough of the new economic policy seems to be right that various experts are now talking about a recovery by year's end, or no worse than early 2010. OK, as far as it goes, even if it necessarily means serious inflation in 2011 or 2012 and a mountain of debt beyond that. But sooner or later the social stuff will become an Obama priority and at that point I fear the Very Worst.. It will be a war by the Admin against the culture of America, against essential values, and against our entire history as a people. Its just a matter of time. Billy ================================================= In a message dated 5/11/2009 8:33:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Aside from being demonized to death by the Democrats and the Media (but I repeat myself), what do you do with the Evangelicals? Let them go third party? Nothing seems to be a real good option here. If the almost 1/2 of the Republican party leaves, we can see Democratic control for years on end. In which case, I think that we can pretty much kiss the country goodbye, if not already. TARP blackmail money, rewriting Bankruptcy law on the fly for the benefit of the UAW and screwing over bond holders, saying that California must give back the salary decrease given to health care workers from the union SEIU or face cutoff of bailout funds (more blackmail money). Deficits as far as the eye can see that make Bush's spending look like a piker. Welcome to Gangsta Government. Cooperate with us or we will destroy you. Sounds like Communism or Obamunism to me. It will be interesting indeed if anyone decides to buy Chrysler and/or GM bonds in the future. I would not. If any mutual fund chooses to, then it is time to drop that fund from the portfolio. David _ “There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.”--Ayn Rand [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: The GOP will bounce back, probably it is inevitable. But will it be the wiser for the experience of its political implosion ? Not if it remains stuck in its Reagan-esque past as a sort of "ideal" to live up to. From my vantage the 80s are just about irrelevant for the 2000s Why ? Because of demographics. I don't see a non-Euro-American future, not any time soon, since at least half of Hispanics are Euro-Americans , maybe 2/3rds. But there is no way to pretend that the culture has not changed. Some of this is all for the good, as everyone knows, I'm big on South and East Asians, also non-Muslim West Asians I like Iranian Baha'is and Zoroastrians, for instance, even if I may argue with some of their beliefs. And so forth with respect to people from India, Japan, China, etc. But a "Christocentric" political theology, which is what the GOP is still all about, necessarily is perceived by Asians as not meaningful. For Catholic Hispanics it may be meaningful enough, but is nonetheless way too parochial / Protestant The Evangelical total is what it is, roughly 25 %, and maybe it can grow to some extent, but how do you build a new majority on that fraction when the rest of the demographics have changed dramatically ? Who, in the GOP:, has the smarts to see the problem and also the creativity to devise a viable solution ? Duh, so far no-one. None of which counts social values issues and how they are changing among the young, while the Evangelical base of the GOP is mostly clueless about how to reach them. Personally, I have no hope at all for the GOP and as for the Dems. on issues that mean the most to me, I have utter contempt for them. Maybe it is quixotic, but sobeit, my choice is some kind of third party. Billy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- In a message dated 5/11/2009 2:10:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: Good luck with that. When the Obama apocalypse fails to arrive by 2010, Dick Morris and his ilk are going to be out of work. :-( I do think there are some real problems with Obama, and muddled centrism isn't a solution, but Rush Limbaugh reactionaryism has even less life in it. Maybe the best solution would be for the Republican Party to stick to its guns and focus on its core historic (meaning Reagen-esque) values. That way, if the voters reject it we can start over with a clean slate. The problem with McCain is that he was too non- traditional to count as a referendum. -- Ernie P. On May 11, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Lennart Johansson wrote: > F.Y.I > > DICK MORRIS: > > _http://www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewopiarticle.jsp?id=2133&type=Opinion_ (http://www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewopiarticle.jsp?id=2133&type=Opinion) > No Triangulation Now > Dick Morris > [CDATA[ > > Despite Gen. Colin Powell's advice that the Republican Party must move > to the center, now is not the time for triangulation by the GOP. It > is, rather, the time for the Party to stand firm and fast upon its > principles and let this nation come around to its way of thinking, > driven by horror at the consequences of Obama's program. > > The leftist challenge brought by Obama is no longer a theoretical one > to be parried by adroit positioning. He means to pass the ultimate > left agenda and has the votes to do so. When he is finished -- well > before the 2010 elections -- our nation will be unrecognizable. > Business will march to a beat drummed in Washington. Those who produce > the most will be hounded by confiscatory taxation. A majority will pay > nothing and receive government welfare. Our health care system will be > destroyed. Illegal immigrants will be well on their way to > citizenship. > > The 2010 elections will not be fought based on debate or rhetoric. > They will be waged over the consequences of Obama's brave new world. > We believe that these results will be disastrous and his Congress will > be swept from power as a result. We think that the recession will > linger only to be joined by inflation -- a recess-flation -- and that > high unemployment will continue. Voters will recognize the damage to > their health care as bureaucrats weigh in to prevent them from getting > the care they need. All America will be alive to the fallout from the > Obama program. Our security and defense failures may well have cost us > Pakistan and the nightmare of a nuclear-armed terrorist state may have > already happened (not in Iran but in Pakistan). > > Only if Republicans are seen as a clear alternative, a clarion voice > for reversal of the harm Obama will have inflicted upon the country, > will they be able to benefit from this catastrophe. If the GOP is seen > as a moderate force, splitting the difference, voters will cynically > conclude that there is no distinction between the parties. Just look > at how the Bush administration seemed to be a puppet of the Democrats > in its last few months. > > There is a season for triangulation and a season for confrontation. > When America faces a new challenge -- as the financial crisis and deep > recession now pose -- we look to the left and to the right for > alternatives, for new answers. We want the debate to rage. Those who > seek to paper over or split the difference are ignored. Such was the > fate of Bush Sr. in 1992 or of McCain in 2008. > > But once the debate has raged and the alternatives have been fleshed > out, voters want a consensus, a Hegelian synthesis, to move in a new > direction. They want to extract the best from each alternative and > combine these ingredients in a new solution. This is the process Dick > labeled triangulation. To ignore the demand for synthesis and to > insist on continuing the debate is to suffer the fate of Dole in 1996 > and Kerry in 2004. > > This process of polarization, debate, synthesis and action is how > America has always moved ahead. Because we are not Japan, we use the > debate to see the options. And because we are not Italy or France, we > come to conclusions and act upon them, leaving the debate far behind. > > Now a great debate has been born. The thesis is Democratic Socialism. > The antithesis is free-market capitalism. The Obama Democrats have > posed the challenge. It is now up to the Republicans to pick it up and > fight along these lines. Compromise is not an option, yet. At some > point, the synthesis will set in. But now is the time for clear > alternatives and sharp disagreement. Only then can we hope to extract > America from the clutches into which it has fallen > > > RUSH LIMBAUGH: > > "The biggest mistake Republicans could make is to follow Colin > Powell's advice and move to the 'center,' because there is no > 'center.' Centrism' is a left-wing code word, just like > 'bipartisanship.' Centrism just means agreeing with Democrats and > moving in their direction." -Rush Limbaugh (email newsletter). > > // Lennart > > _______________________________________________ > Centroids mailing list: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) > Archives at _http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at _http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at _http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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