Are Nat's monthly posts about his hourly rate in reference to a job that's
just come up price fixing? :)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 15 March 2001 05:23
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
The rules do not need to be changed. I don't censor posts based on content.
When I do censor, it is a subject that is part of a thread that's totally
OT
AND disruptive (on other lists). As this covers all posts with that thread
with no recognition of the content, it doesn't constitute legal censorship
(for lawsuit purpose). If I was reading posts and censoring them, then I'd
have a target on me.
Now, as for price fixing. If I told everyone here to charge 100 per hour
and
nothing less AND people listened AND we discussed how to keep it at this
price, then we've got price fixing. If someone asks me what I'm making at
the fed per hour (115/hour) that has nothing to do with price fixing. Even
if someone wants to go on a new contract and say they want the same, I'm
not
telling or even suggesting they do. Without me saying what someone else
(actually everyone else) should charge, I'm quite safe and so are you.
Post responsibly and your ok. Just for the record, I will not be listening
to anyone who tells me what to charge so there will always be a small out
in
the price fixing argument. :)
> Michael Dinowitz
> The rules need to be changed.
> :-) !
>
> Remember when AOL got sued for displaying some content and they won the
lawsuit by saying that like a phone company
> they just transmit the content, not provide it or censor it? So why can't
this list be the same way - we are each
> responsible for our own posts and HofF doesn't censor any posts...
>
> - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
>
> "Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
>
> > Wow, I never intended to offend anyone. I was following the discussion
and
> > thought it took a turn when Angil discussed how much was actually
charged. I
> > personally do not believe that this constitutes price fixing, and I'm
sure
> > the Fed does not care what happens on this list.
> >
> > However, regardless of whether or not you folks think you are legally
within
> > bounds to have this discussion (are any of you actually lawyers?),
there
are
> > rules on this list, and discussing pricing definitely violates those
rules.
> >
> > If you think the rules need to be changed, then I would recommend that
you
> > contact Michael Dinowitz.
> >
> > Benjamin S. Rogers
> > Web Developer, c4.net
> > Voice: (508) 240-0051
> > Fax: (508) 240-0057
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:39 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
> >
> > <CF_Rant>
> > I have read the link, the HTML writer Guide page on not discussing
pricing
> > and the USDOJ info on anti-trust...
> > ..... and I have to say that I think this "don't ever discuss prices on
the
> > CF-Communuity List" is a bunch of crap. I
> > realize this is Michael Dinowitz's list to do with as he may, but I
didn't
> > see any attempt to set prices or to ask
> > what price to charge so as to avoid competition in these posts....
> >
> > There was a discussion of how to approach some work and the pitfall to
> > avoid. This is different from person A says
> > what do you charge for a job so I will know not to bid less. Unless
someone
> > things there is a huge CF Community
> > conspiracy to keep prices up my personal view is chill.
> > </CF_Rant>
> >
> > I just had to get that off my chest. Back to your normal programming
now.
> > :-)
> > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> >
> > "Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
> >
> > > You really should not discuss pricing in a public list such as this.
It
> > > opens certain individuals and organizations such as the list
moderator
and
> > > hosting provider to legal repercussions.
> > >
> > > For these and many other reasons, discussions of pricing between
> > competitors
> > > in public forums is generally frowned upon. In most scenarios, the
persons
> > > discussing pricing are removed from the list.
> > >
> > > For more information:
> > >
> > > http://www.houseoffusion.com/hof/lists/faq.htm#1
> > >
> > > Benjamin S. Rogers
> > > Web Developer, c4.net
> > > Voice: (508) 240-0051
> > > Fax: (508) 240-0057
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Angil Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:34 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: Charging for Installation
> > >
> > > 0_0
> > >
> > > I just had the meeting.
> > > I knew that damned woman was smiling too much..
> > > and here I was thinking it was my new spiffy haircut
> > >
> > > I..umm..oh geez.
> > >
> > > I went with a flat rate of 1000 to cover the entire installation and
> > > bringing the program to the point at which it was functioning on the
> > remote
> > > staging server(some variables in app_global.cfm would need changing
etc.),
> > > including setting up CF professional w service packs and this sybase
> > stuff.
> > >
> > > Arrrgh! And there are few to no CF Developers in Trinidad..I could
have
> > > probably named my own price!
> > > I...didn't consider what would happen in terms of time and cost if it
all
> > > went tragicly wrong..
> > >
> > > :-\
> > > stupid stupid inexperienced me.
> > > .....
> > > .....
> > > *holds himself*
> > > I feel so...used.
> > > 0_0
> > > *shivers*
> > >
> > > -Gel
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2001 01:05
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
> > >
> > > If you haven't installed SQL-anywhere before are you including
installing
> > > that and installing a *working* ODBC
> > > driver for it? This alone could take anywhere from 2 hours to 20
hours
if
> > > you have problems!! Plus the default ODBC
> > > driver may be buggy requiring purchasing a 3rd party one... who will
pay
> > for
> > > that?
> > >
> > > Again you need to confirm that if you get the app to do the same as
it
> > does
> > > on the staging server you are done.
> > >
> > > Also given the level of service from the other company what if they
forget
> > a
> > > file you need - will you be waiting
> > > around weeks to get it and to get paid?
> > >
> > > Good luck - if you do this job I am sure you will gain a lot of
> > experience!
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> > >
> > > Angil Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hell no..I've never done anything with Sybase SQL Anywhere. I'm
hoping
> > > that
> > > > its a simple task of setting up an ODBC datasource.
> > > >
> > > > The previous developer seems to have produced a decent application
from
> > > what
> > > > I can see, but it took them 10 months and 30,000 dollars to do it.
BUt
> > it
> > > > uses some very nice layout, for the code..with every query and
piece
of
> > > > logic in a neat, seperate file so the main file is just a series of
> > > > CFINcludes...nice use of Session variables, it even builds threads
and
> > > sets
> > > > up users for a message board system when necessary...really neat.
> > > >
> > > > Buuuut apparently the client was extremely dissatisfied with their
level
> > > of
> > > > service.
> > > > They want to pull the application from the former developers
servers
> > where
> > > > it was hosted, and do everything themselves...which is where I come
in.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose charging for a days work at US100.00 * 8 =US800.00 should
> > cover
> > > it
> > > > all.
> > > > I'll tell them the cost covers set up and getting the program up
and
> > > > running, no modifications.
> > > > And when we have it up...work a cost on future modifications etc.
> > > >
> > > > That sounds like the best plan..right? :)
> > > >
> > > > I hate arranging pricing and cost.
> > > > *sigh*
> > > > -Gel
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > >
> > > > Have you installed this set up before - especially the database?
How
> > long
> > > > did it take?
> > > > Why is the original firm not doing this - did the client and them
have a
> > > > disagreement?
> > > > The phase "a little modification" is danagerous - what if the
client
now
> > > > expects you to fix all bugs until the app
> > > > works!! Can they show you the app working correctly on a staging
server
> > > > first? :-)
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line ... You need a clearer scope of work or just bill
hourly.
> > > >
> > > > FYI On straightforward installs we usually figure a day to iron out
all
> > > > problems. This is where we have written the
> > > > code. On someone else's code who knows what will need "adjusting"?
> > > >
> > > > Good luck
> > > >
> > > > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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