I'm beginning to suspect some dirty dealings somewhere, there seems to be a
lot of anti CF stuff going around at the moment and it seems to be
coordinated.
I actually had someone who claims to be a senior consultant tell me the
other day that they would never use CF as it used its own database and they
needed to use Oracle! This isn't the first time I have heard total rubbish
like this, and it always seems to come from people who attend MS seminars on
a regular basis...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ang�l Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Use .jsp and not .cfm ..
> This is what I sent my immediate manager..we're very informal in our
> relationship , so don't think I'm going to get fired tomorrow or anything
(I
> hope) hee hee hee :)
>
> It was orignally in HTML format though..with Horizontal rules, and bold
and
> colored text to make things stand out.
> Regressing to Plaint Text has made it a lot more difficult to read I'm
> afraid :-\
>
> Of course I left out a lot of stuff, and it wasn't entirely impartial lol
> lol :)
> But I was trying to get a point across.
>
> In Trinidad and several other islands, development is almost solely in
ASP,
> and companies are only now starting to get wind of Cold Fusion.
>
> Now, because Oracle is pushing its .jsp and Java integration, these are
> becoming buzz words as well, without management or even the developers
> really knowing about these technologies or how to implement them.
>
> Coldfusion is seen as a jokey little language that non programmers use.
> Even though I produced two scripts in CF that was used wholly and solely
to
> normalise the financial data sent to us by a Bank.
>
> If that wasn't programming then I don't know what is! I could have used
> MSAccess and VB, but I specifically did it IN Coldfusion to prove a
> point..and the point seems to have slipped neatly above the heads of those
> 'in charge' of the tools and the money spent on those tools.
>
> They're just going with the buzz.
>
> And despite the fact that in all the magazines and comparisons that I see
> done independently, Allaire CF beats the rest, it just isn't making
> inroads...it isn't becoming BUZZ worthy..
> and I just can't freaking understand why...and its frustrating.
>
> Because I know the language, I know its potential..I see where it is
> going...and no one else around here does.
> I'm starting to think that mayhap it be time to move on :)
>
> -Gel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> What are our priorities for development?
>
> 1) Rapid Application Development
> 2) Ease Of Use
> 3) A complete,full featured, mature API.
> 4) Timely customer support
> 5) Professionalism in the eyes of the customer.
>
> "With our priorities of speedy development, ease of use, and a complete
and
> powerful API, ColdFusion really stood out. "
>
> "ColdFusion server professional 4.5.1 is our top overall choice for
> script-based Web application development. It provides a rich API combined
> with the easiest programming language and the best administration,
> performance monitoring, development and debugging tools we tested. It also
> runs on several platforms and has strong back-end data connectivity. "
>
> This is from the most well known indepednent comparison of the above
listed
> languages that was done late last year. IT was carried out by the
developers
> at ZDNET's Eweek, well known and respected for producing unbiased product
> reviews.
>
> "JSP is a relatively new technology and still has clear market
immaturities
> in terms of tools, support resources and available talent. "
>
> Hmm...that doesn't seem to meet any of our requirements for Rapid
> Application Development does it.....
>
> "Because JSP is based on Java, a strongly typed language, we had to
declare
> the types of variables we used and manually convert between types when
> necessary. This makes JSP the hardest of the scripting languages we tested
> for nonprogrammers to learn, although anyone who knows some Java will
figure
> out JSP almost immediately. "
>
> Do any of the programmers in the office that will be working on this B2B
> project know Java inside out?
> I don't think so.
>
> "The ColdFusion site running on a Windows 2000 test server had a speed of
> about 29 pages per second."
> "On a test Linux server, Tomcat had a speed of about 13 pages per second"
>
>
> "because a just-emerging JSP extension called tag libraries lets JSP mimic
> ColdFusion's tag-style API, we think JSP is going to be a core Web
scripting
> language in a few years. "
>
> I see..so SUN is trying to copycat Cold Fusion's style of using tag
> libraries etc. , and in a few years they might get it right.....
> but we don't want to use Cold Fusion the product they are trying to
> copy...why?
> because we want to be ready next "few years" when people REALLY start
using
> .jsp and it matures?
>
> So we're eschewing a Mature, Robust product that will do the job and do it
> very capably..to ride the bleeding edge of development, with immature
> toolsets, and poor support?
>
> These aren't my words..these were written and compiled by people with
> degrees, and PHDs who ahve been in this business far longer than I.
>
> In my mind there is absolutely no valid reason to use .jsp over Coldfusion
> for this major project.
>
> THe argument that we need to "expand our horizons"...
> How many of us know .jsp? None.
>
> How many of us know CF? Me..
>
> So wouldn't having the other programmers learn Coldfusion be 'expanding
> their horizons' as well?
>
> In addition to meeting our requirements for RAD, and having a mature tool
to
> use with clear support paths? IF we run into a problem with integrating
> Java/.jsp/Oracle who we gonna call?
> SUN Microsystems?
>
> Are any of our programmers tied into a .JSP community for a year or more
> that they can draw on for support?
>
> What development tools are we going to use?
> JBuilder?
> That tool is poor when compared to Coldfusion Studio, even Stacy said so
> when she was asked and she has attempted to use the tool before.
>
> If we are going to use .jsp, at least use a toolset and a development
> environment that is modern, and that was built for RAD and web application
> development like JRun and KAWA or something ya know??
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> Now when you couple this with the fact that CF has a very clear and well
> defined upgrade and support path, and are developing Coldfusion 5.0 that
> will provide On The Fly page rendering, so you don't have to wait for a
page
> to finish processing before data is produced, User Defined
Functions..here's
> a short list:
>
>
> Examine ColdFusion Server performance statistics over a period of time.
> The Performance Summary report offers cumulative averages for all the
server
> statistics in a given time period. You can choose to view one of four
> different time intervals: monthly, weekly, daily and hourly. Other
> performance reports that are available in which you can view specific
> statistics about include: Requests, Database Operations, Cache Pops,
Queued
> Requests, Requests in Process, Time Out requests, and Throughput.
> Track ColdFusion Server configuration changes as they occur.
> The Settings Change Log report identifies all configuration modifications
in
> the selected time period including the old and new values for all such
> changes. This report helps you pinpoint when changes occurred and how
these
> changes might have affected the behavior of the ColdFusion Server.
> Identify all current configuration settings from one view.
> The Settings Summary report lists all the current server configuration
> settings that you can print or otherwise capture for future use.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> High availability controls
> The monitoring and site management features provided with ColdFusion 5.0
> enable you to effectively monitor resources in your Web site, be informed
> when critical events occur, and control the distribution of HTTP traffic
> hitting your Web sites. For more information about these new features, see
> the following ColdFusion 5.0 Administrator online Help topics:
>
> Understanding ColdFusion Probes
> Setting Server Thresholds
> Adding and Configuring a Probe
> Event Notifications
> Specifying Alarm Recipients
> Adding a Third-party Load Balancing device
> Viewing the Web Site Configuration
> Managed data is now accessible in ColdFusion 5.0 through the Simple
Network
> Management Protocol (SNMP) Management Information Base (MIB) for Advanced
> ColdFusion Application Management services. You can now easily integrate
> this information with your third-party system management tools like HP
Open
> View. These tools, like HP Open View, provide a way for you to manage
> diverse components about your enterprise from any managed site in your
> network.
>
> Can we offer our customers such an integrated solution with .jsp? No.
> Maybe in a few years....eh?
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> One of the more powerful features introduced with ColdFusion Server 5.0 is
> the ability to perform queries against query result sets. The query of
query
> feature can substantially improve real performance, as well as apparent
> performance, in ColdFusion applications that conduct large-scale database
> queries. The query of queries feature currently supports a subset of the
SQL
> 92 Standard.
>
> Advantages of querying a query
> There are many benefits to having in-memory manipulation of queries.
> Database access time is greatly reduced since result sets are manipulated
> using SQL in the ColdFusion Server process rather than through a database
> connection. Results from disparate data sources can be joined. You can
> manipulate cached query results, further increasing the efficiency of the
> cached query. You can achieve cursor-like functionality without
maintaining
> a connection to the backend. Filtering, grouping, and aggregating using
> ColdFusion is faster than the comparable query action in the database
since
> the table is already in memory.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> The cftextinput, cfslider, cftree, and cfgrid tags are completely
rewritten
> to improve their overall quality and maintainability. The implementation,
> packaging, delivery, and security model of the controls changed. As a
result
> of this work, the controls run more consistently in various Java
> environments.
>
> , cfgraph and cfgraphdata to generate dynamic charts and graphs in either
> Flash, GIF, or JPG format from various data sources, including database
> query results, hard-coded data, variables, and other data. Using the
cfgraph
> and cfgraphdata tags, you can build charts and graphs in bar, line, and
pie
> formats. For detailed instructions on the three formats, click on any of
the
> following links:
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> ColdFusion 5.0 for Windows and Linux now features automatic footprint
> reduction to minimize the amount of memory used by the ColdFusion 5.0
Server
> on these platforms. ColdFusion 5.0 dynamically releases unused memory back
> to the operating system to minimize its process footprint. Customers with
> Web applications that occasionally use very large blocks of memory will
see
> this memory returned to the operating system when the operation is
complete.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> Enhanced Java Interface
> ColdFusion 5.0 uses a custom class loader to load Java class files. Java
> developers can now change Java classes without restarting ColdFusion each
> time. With this change, the concept of a dynamic class load path is
> introduced. ColdFusion assumes this path to be the same as the CFX path.
It
> is in the directory where the cfx.jar and javarunner.jar files are placed.
>
> ColdFusion monitors this directory for class file time stamp changes. For
> example, if the Java class "FooBar.class" is placed in that directory.
Each
> time an object of "FooBar" class is loaded, the class file is checked for
> updates. Changes are incorporated immediately
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> You can now use CFScript to define custom functions for frequently used
> algorithms or procedures. This lets you write code once and use it many
> times in your pages. Custom functions are generally faster than equivalent
> custom tags and provide the convenience of return values. You can call
> custom functions anywhere that you can use a ColdFusion expression, such
as
> in tag attributes, between # signs in output, and in CFScript code. You
can
> pass a function name as an argument to another function.
>
> You can define a custom function within a CFScript tag in any template.
The
> definition must be visible when you call the custom function.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> ColdFusion 5 upgrades its searching capabilities with the inclusion of
> Verity VDK 2.6.1. KeyView Filters 6.5.4 supports indexing and viewing
> documents storied in many popular desktop publishing, word processing, and
> presentation formats. For more information, refer to the Verity Web site
at
> (http://www.verity.com/products/devokit/index.html).
>
> Yes..this means you can actually perform SERVER SIDE SEARCHES on .ppt
> presentations, .pdf files, Word Documents, Excel documents etc. RIGHT OUT
> THE BOX with Coldfusion....can you think of uses for this for the ICSC
> application? This is available in CF4.5 right now actually..
>
> Can you do that with .jsp?
> Umm....nope. :-)
>
> Can you do it with ASP? Yep..if you install Index Server..and SIte
> Minder..and then get them to talk to each other with IIS5..and and...
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> Coldfusion 6, due late 2001 or early 2002 is going to take CFML code, and
> converting it to .jsp ANYWAYS..so the skills used now, will be converted,
if
> you like, to .jsp by early next year.
>
> You also have the strong integration between Coldfusion and FLASH, how
> important is FLASH for websites nowadays?
>
> Macromedia has merged with Allaire..so you have the Premier provider of
> Graphical Interaction on the web, teamed with the Premier provider of
> DATABASE interaction on the web...Does this not seem like a good thing?
>
> Does SUN and .jsp have any of these powerful ties and buy ins?
>
> You can actually write data to a database through a Flash control, and
> display data from a database through a flash control using CF.
> Can any of our staff do that with .jsp?
>
> Nope.
>
> Anyways..if you've reached this far I've said enough.
>
> I just don't think that .jsp is the right tool for this job, and I
strongly
> believe the reasons for wanting to use .jsp for this job has absolutely
> nothing to do with it being 'more suited'.
>
> The other programmers involved in this project aren't even aware of the
> premier tool for doing .jsp and JAVA design right now which is KAWA.
> But we gonna finish this project in a month or just a little more?
>
> If we're gonna learn a language..fine..say we are going to learn a
language.
> But learning a language to produce a product that we want to sell to
> customers, when we have something else that can do it faster and better
just
> doesn't make sense to me.
>
> We'll be fighting ourselves trying to sort out problems that the customers
> are having, instead of simply responding to their needs and delivering a
> robust product that we can readily support.
>
> We will be needing support ourselves during the customers implementation
> life cycle, and thats not a good thing, nor is it necessary in this
> instance.
> So why do it?
>
> We have dozens of shopping carts and ordering systems that we can get and
> modify with Coldfusion, we have literally HUNDREDS of custom tags that can
> be used to enhance web pages and user input with our products...We have a
> vibrant and rapidly growing developer community with Cold Fusion...
>
> where are the similar resources for .jsp?
> They don't exist,we'll have to do it all ourselves from scratch:
> "JSP is a relatively new technology and still has clear market
immaturities
> in terms of tools, support resources and available talent"
>
> That said, I have no problem with learning .jsp and being involved in the
> development aspect of this project.
> I just don't see the need to frustrate myself with trying to produce
> something in some kind of timeframe using the wrong development
environment
> for the job to satisfy..I don't know what really :-)
>
> I just would like to state for the record that it is my opinion that if we
> do use .jsp for this project, we will miss the deadline of a month we set
> for ourselves, by at least another month or more.
>
> The only chance we have of creating a robust,customised B2B application in
a
> short timeframe, sticking with our RAD focus, is Cold Fusion.
>
> If we have no timeframe and the rest of the year to get this thing
> right,including a very understanding customer who doesn't mind the fact
that
> we are now learning the programming tools we are using to build the
service
> we are offering, then that is a different story of course.
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise/stories/linux/0,12249,2646052,00.html
>
> -Gel
>
>
>
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