haha, I collect cars. Ok, I only own two. But cars kill more
people than guns do. Let's outlaw cars... I mean, damn, the
prices of gas are slowly killing me!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 4:31 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Violent education
I own swords and throwing knives. I don't have to have a licence to own
these. I don't have to have a license to use them. They are just as deadly
as a gun. They are harder to trace and in the case of some of the knives,
much easier to hide.
They are quite, don't require me to purchase bullets. Only a little more
time to learn how to use. But hey who cares, as long as I don't have any
guns I am OK!
At 02:14 PM 5/7/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>The only thing I can say in regards to that is, my baseball card collection
>can't kill, my stamp collection and comic book collections can't either.
>Unless I were to tie some one down and slash at them for a very long time,
>longer than I probably have the energy for. However your gun collection
>could easily be turned to violence on a whim.
>
>Sadly it's everyone's business what you collect when it turns on us. If you
>have children then your gun collection has a chance of doing harm, if you
>get fired and feel wronged, then your gun collection has a chance to do
>harm, If you're just having a really crappy day and don't know how to vent
>your anger, then your gun collection has a chance to do harm. If it meant
>giving up something I collect in order to help affect political and
societal
>change, I'd be a no comic book, no stamp, no baseball card having
individual
>(I actually don't collect any of those things, I don't really collect
>anything, I'm kinda boring LOL).
>
>We talk about responsibility, then maybe we should be responsible enough to
>understand that guns aren't a symptom, guns are part of the problem, and
>when we see that then maybe we'll be that much closer to a solution. The
gun
>toting "collectors" and People "protecting" themselves would rather, it
>seems blame society as a whole, video games, poor old Marylyn Manson and
>pretty much anybody else rather than look at themselves and think, "I'd
>never kill a sole, but what about my wife, kids? family that might visit?
>some one who might break in and steal my gun?" But then as long as you're
>not pulling the trigger it's really not your fault or responsibility.
>
>If you look at the columbine kids or the one in Santee and elsewhere many
of
>there parents and classmates would say, "He was so quite, not a violent
bone
>in his body." I'd hardly say that is a propensity for violence, I'd say
>that's rage that is out of control and a gun in the house is a very easy
>answer to that rage.
>
>Just think, all this lively conversation has gotten all of our blood
pumping
>and we're completely energized. :-)
>
>J.
>
>John Wilker
>Web Applications Consultant
>Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
>
>www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
>
>"Pessimism - Every dark cloud has a silver lining, but lightning kills
>hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it." ~despair.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 1:24 PM
>To: CF-Community
>Subject: RE: Violent education
>
>
>John - The reason I own so many guns is the same reason all those sports
>cards collectors have so many cards - because they can or because they like
>to collect that certain thing. Now, I know you're saying, "but Mark,
trading
>cards don't kill people". Well John, neither do guns my friend. Has it sunk
>in yet? It's nobodies business why I own so many guns. Just like it's none
>of my business why people collect anything I don't particularly care about
>or more pointedly, don't understand. What almost everybody is saying here
is
>that we HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS! Blaming all our problems on
>guns is being a complete passifist and near-sighted. That is, you're not
>looking at the deeper rooted issues with this country and violence.
>
>Saying that some kid won't commit acts of violence because he doesn't have
>access to a gun is ridiculous. If a kid has a propensity for violence,
guess
>what? He's going to commit violence. Which would you rather have - a
society
>that takes care of itself, has respect for others, takes responsibility for
>their actions? Or a government controlled fascist (a.k.a Mussolini, Hitler)
>type society where you have to ask permission to take a dump?
>
>I know it's easier said than done, but it's not like this country has never
>had values before. It wasn't too long ago when the majority of people
>respected life and respected each other. We live in a society now where men
>don't have respect for women, we care too much about material things. We
>dump our kids off at some building and let others take care of them. We've
>lost site of what "family" really means. I remember my family sitting down
>for breakfast and dinner every day. I'm sure that a lot of families still
do
>that, but the numbers are dwindling.
>
>God, I knew when I saw this topic this morning that I wouldn't get any work
>done... Sorry, I'm just very perfervid about this topic.
>
>Mark Stewart
>Programmer/Analyst
>Communication Concepts
>215.672.6900 x1332
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 03:26PM >>>
>I completely agree, no amount of laws will ever completely end anything,
>because you're right. Where there is demand supply will be available.
>However if guns weren't so easy to get a hold of you have to admit that
many
>would not commit acts of violence. If a kids gets beat up by a bully and
has
>the ability to run upstairs and grab a gun and put it in his back pack,
he's
>more likely to do it, than if he had no access to a gun in the house and
>would have to figure out how to get one. Chances are he'd cool off and
think
>about it.
>
>I can't even imagine what logic dictates to own several guns. Ok if I take
>into account that there are accounts of people defending themselves with a
>fire arm, why more than one? In case you are being attacked by several
>assailants? In case you need to arm the wife and kids?
>
>People who are for guns seem to always have many guns. and a lot seem to
>have no need for them. I live in a particularly crappy area, I hear gun
>shots at night at least once a month or more, I feel in no way compelled to
>arm myself.
>
>The argument that our country was founded on guns and our ability to defend
>ourselves is moot. When the constitution was written our army was small and
>mostly militia. Of course they needed to be armed. However our country was
>also founded on slavery, and yet somehow we saw fit to abolish that. So we
>can't argue that was good back in 1776 is still good and applies today.
>
>Today needs to be judged by today, and today we have a nation of people
>armed to the teeth simply because they can be. And unless evidence is made
>available that the number of innocent people killed by family guns is much
>smaller than the number of people saved by a family gun, I'll choose to
stay
>un armed.
>
>J.
>
>John Wilker
>Web Applications Consultant
>Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
>
>www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
>
>"Pessimism - Every dark cloud has a silver lining, but lightning kills
>hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it." ~despair.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: George Kaytor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:49 AM
>To: CF-Community
>Subject: RE: Violent education
>
>
>"All guns kill" - Nope, I own several guns and they have never killed
>anything. (I don't hunt, only target shoot) My dog did kill a frog once
>though......
>
>"However we aren't talking about criminals" - The second those psycho kids
>started planning their assault on the school, they became criminals. Are
you
>really naive to think if their parents didn't own guns they could not have
>gotten them?
>
>Also, there are plenty of stories of people successfully defending
>themselves with firearms. The media chooses to downplay them though.
>
>Here's more food for thought.... Washington DC has the strongest gun
control
>laws in the country? They also have one of the highest crime rates. Make
>your own conclusions....
>
>-george
>
>
> >From: "John Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Violent education
> >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 11:09:43 -0700
> >
> >I completely agree that gun control will have little effect on the
> >criminals
> >out there. However we aren't talking about the criminals. We're talking
> >about kids going out and shooting their classmates in cold blood with the
> >parents weapons. Gun control would come very close to solving that
problem.
> >If you look at all these school shooting cases I don't recall any of the
> >kids coming from the homes of known criminals. They come from the homes
of
> >the people who feel a gun will offer them protection from criminals.
> >
> >"I think everyone for gun control should put
> >a big sign in their yard (We have no firearms in this household). This
> >would
> >serve as a great invite to burglars."
> >
> >I'll put a sign in my yard that says I have no gun. How many people who
own
> >guns "for protection" have had to protect themselves? If some one kicked
in
> >your door would you have either the time or inclination to run for your
> >gun?
> >Houses are usually robbed when empty and when they're not it's a home
> >invasion scenario in which case, many are killed with the guns they
bought
> >to protect themselves.
> >
> >"So .. if I have guns and the kid down the street has guns and he kills a
> >bunch of people and I don't, what's the difference? It's not the guns.
> >I'll say its 50% nature and 50% nurture ... that's what it *really* boils
> >down to."
> >
> >The difference is, that if neither household had a gun in it, the kids
> >would
> >be alive and your chances of being robbed would be no greater.
> >
> >Do any of us really think that criminals know where the houses with guns
> >are? Owning a gun is no more a deterrent than being an off duty police
> >office asleep in your bed, a crook isn't gonna know that going in.
> >
> >"The next problem with your logic is where do you draw the line? Drug
> >dealers
> >train attack dogs to protect their 'crack houses'. When the police bust
in,
> >these dogs attack the police buying their owners time to either attempt
> >escape or destroy evidence. Do we ban owning dogs?"
> >
> >That's a slippery slope that can't be answered. By that logic we should
out
> >law doors, since they impeded a cops entering of a house. That's not
really
> >a strong argument. But to address dogs, not all dogs kill, some do some
> >don't. All guns kill. People or animals, guns have no other purpose than
to
> >end life.
> >
> >J.
> >
> >
> >
> >John Wilker
> >Web Applications Consultant
> >Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
> >
> >www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
> >
> >"Pessimism - Every dark cloud has a silver lining, but lightning kills
> >hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it." ~despair.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Todd Ashworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 10:30 AM
> >To: CF-Community
> >Subject: Re: Violent education
> >
> >
> >| If we had strict gun control then who would we need to protect
ourselves
> >| from? If the criminals couldn't get guns then people wouldn't think
they
> >| needed them in their houses.
> >
> >I hate to disagree, but strict gun control isn't going to do much to keep
> >the guns out of the hands of people. Drugs are actually illegal, yet
kids
> >these days have better access to drugs in schools than they do guns. Gun
> >control might help, but it won't solve anything in the long run. Don't
get
> >me wrong .. I'm no fan of the NRA, but I don't believe in gun control for
> >the sake of preventing violence alone. It just isn't going to work.
> >
> >Growing up, I played violent video games, watched violent shows on TV,
had
> >toy guns, played war with my buddies and all of that. I also had access
to
> >guns and even personaly owned a few. I had my share of run-ins with
> >bullies
> >in highschool, but I *never* felt compelled to take a gun to school and
> >blow
> >some people away for the hell of it.
> >
> >So .. if I have guns and the kid down the street has guns and he kills a
> >bunch of people and I don't, what's the difference? It's not the guns.
> >I'll say its 50% nature and 50% nurture ... that's what it *really* boils
> >down to.
> >
> >Todd
> >
>
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