> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:00 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
>
>
> I attacked you? You called me a Nazi, and told me to move to Afghanistan.
> And now you call me a skin head or militia member.
By Nazi, I meant your comments coincide with theirs. That is not an attack,
it is a point. By moving to Afghanistan I meant you would fit right in with
their view points. Again, not an attack, a point. Perhaps it sounded like an
attack. I apologize.
>
> Just so you know, I'm not, I'm not a racist, I'm no a neo nazi or anything
> else, I have a job, I pay my bills and my taxes. I consider myself
> intelligent and well read.
That's great to hear.
>
> No I have not served in an armed force, let me guess, I'm less of a man
> because of it.
No, but if you feel that way, so be it. What I DID mean is that, until you
are faced with the potential need to actually kill people, it is VERY easy
to talk about just killing them all or retaliating against a country. Fire
off a cruise missle and kill women and children. Hijack a plane and crash it
into a building and kill women and children. Tell me, what is the
difference? How is this any different? How are we any different from them?
>
> I have no idea what halflife is and have not played Doom for years.
I have no comment here, can you believe it?
>
> I value the sanctity of life highly, highly enough to recognize that it is
> worth protecting at the cost of some one else's. would you lay
> down during a
> mugging and be stabbed or kill the assailant if you could?
I would kill the assailant. I would NOT kill all of the people who may be
around and have nothing to do with the mugging, even if their skin color
matched the assailants, as you would if we follow your line of reasoning
several mails back.
>
> I guess when all other view points are just rhetoric and idiotic your side
> of arguments must always look the best, I'm glad you're so open minded I'm
> not sure which email you are referring to but I try to not attack people
> when replying. You know things like calling them Nazis, and saying things
> like "all talk and no action" since I'm not in the service or a
> Militia yes
> I am all talk, it's called an opinion, I'm glad you are so eager
> to dismiss
> mine.
You said the above first sentence, not me. And you are open minded? Again,
if your views are in line with Nazis, what else is it? Nazism is an
idealogy, as in neo-Nazi. You may not call yourself one because you fear
what people would think, but your leanings and thoughts are there. I listen
to your side, but you will have a very hard time convincing me to just kill
people because there skin color matches that of the people who did this.
As to the "all talk and no action" thing. What I meant there was that when
it comes time to shoot someone, like a small child or a woman, who had
nothing to do with this, as we retaliate against a country or people, would
you have the nerve to do it? Sure, you can stand-off and fire a missle and
wipe out half a city. That is pretty impersonal. Like a computer game. But
could you actually go in and cut their throats? I seriously doubt it. It is
easy to be full of opinions and bravado about killing people, it is another
to be tasked with doing it.
>
> J.
>
>
> John Wilker
> Web Applications Consultant
> Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
>
> www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
>
> What does Snoop Dogg use to do his laundry? Blee-otch!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:14 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
>
>
> Sadly, you miss the point. Instead of providing a good argument for you
> case, you attack me, like so many conservatives do to the
> "liberals", for my
> views.
>
> I served for 10 years in the Air Force in the 80's. Did you serve an armed
> branch? I have spent time on all but two continents, Antarctica and
> Australia (missing those much to my regret). I am a for times Marksman,
> served on pistol and rifle teams. I am a martial artist
> practicing Tai-Jitsu
> and prefer close in knife work. I served on Battle Damage Repair teams and
> have hiked into Honduran jungles to recover people and planes. I have also
> served on humanitarian relief missions in Africa in the early '80s. I have
> met the people you so easily talk about killing. Perhaps your reality is
> playing Doom or HalfLife or some other game where there are no
> consequences
> for killing people. Your callousness toward human life is
> astonishing to me.
> It is okay to cause pain and suffering, as long as it is not
> Americans. For
> my edification, are you in a militia or skin head group?
>
> Nowhere in my email did I say we should not attack these organizations. I
> said we should not be irresponsible about it, as did the person
> in the email
> before your first reply (who you also personally attacked).
>
> Your rhetoric is no different from that of Bin Laden's, or, for
> that matter,
> Rush Limbaugh's or O'Reilly. I would imagine Bin Laden is saying EXACTLY
> what you are saying. No, we must always take the high road. That is what
> differentiates us. It seems to me you are all talk and no action. When you
> have the opportunity to put a gun to a persons head, or even look at them
> through a gun sight, you want, at least I want, to know they are
> the enemy.
>
> Your impotent rage is understandable. You are right, we did nothing about
> the Cole or about the Embassies, other than track down some of the embassy
> bombers. What should we do? Should we attack a country for possibly
> harboring a terrorist? Hell, we would have to attack ourselves. Should we
> have attacked Yemen for the Cole?
>
> I, for one, am glad that cooler heads than yours are prevailing in
> Washington. Blindly attacking these people will not stop them, we already
> know that, except for you. How do you know that there would not
> be even more
> American deaths if we had unilaterally mass killed or retaliated
> against the
> people we think did the Cole or Embassies? Who would you
> retaliate against.
>
> You need to wake to the reality of what happened on the 11th. ONLY A TINY
> HANDFUL OF PEOPLE KILLED PERHAPS THOUSANDS. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE
> THESE KINDS
> OF PEOPLE TO DO THIS. The German Nazis tried to destroy an entire race of
> people, and, thankfully, failed. Is that what you are suggesting with your
> rhetoric? What happened, did an Arab programmer beat you out of a job? Do
> you think the only threats to this country are from Arabs? Why all this
> anger?
>
> Please, think before you spew forth garbage about liberals. Because I lean
> toward moderate does not mean I am soft. I just do not agree with
> your take
> on the world and about why we are in the state we are (which to me is not
> that bad overall). If the Bush administration had cared about foreign
> affairs more than chasing their money interests, maybe we could
> have averted
> this.
>
> I am tired and I am rambling. Goodnight. (is that a soft liberal thing to
> say?)
>
> -Gary
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:11 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> >
> >
> > I was born in Portland OR.
> >
> > It's not the only road for us. People like you are the reason terrorism
> > continues. They attack, we do nothing, they attack, we do nothing, and
> > people like you just keep chanting the age old Mantra, ignore
> > them and they
> > will stop. What would you propose the US do. impose sanctions on
> > Afghanistan? Send a nasty Email? We did nothing when the Cole was
> > attacked,
> > we did nothing when our embassy's were attacked.
> >
> > Did you read the link Good Mr. Dinowitz sent?
> > http://arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=9765
> >
> > Doing nothing inspires more attacks, neutralizing the threat ends the
> > attacks. How does one get roaches out of their house, ignore
> > them, tell them
> > how bad they are? no kill them all, including the queen.
> >
> > We'll recover and set ourselves up for another attack.
> >
> > Wake up guy, this isn't the world where good intentions and
> > taking the high
> > road wins. I know it's less than ideal but the saying is true,
> evil begets
> > evil. They have attacked us, we need to strike back and rock them
> > so that if
> > they ever think about attacking us again, they shudder and change their
> > minds.
> >
> > You'd probably wait until every major city was in flames before deciding
> > that action needed.
> >
> >
> > In case you are too close minded to follow the link:
> >
> > "The Punishment For Not Responding Forcefully
> > Yoram Ettinger, Israel's former liaison to the U.S. Congress,
> told Arutz-7
> > today, "One thing that we can learn from yesterday is the
> punishment that
> > comes to those who don't respond forcefully to terrorism. Allow
> me review
> > the following:
> > "October 2000 - 17 US sailors were murdered in a Bin Laden
> attack in Aden,
> > but the Clinton administration did not respond militarily, because he
> > preferred to conduct negotiations.
> > "Aug 1998 - 257 people, including 12 Americans, were killed in
> the bombing
> > of American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the response
> was cruiser
> > missiles to insignificant targets in Sudan and Pakistan.
> > "June '96 - 19 Americans murdered in a military base in Saudi
> Arabia, with
> > no American military response.
> > "November '95 - 5 Americans were murdered in an army base in
> > Riyadh, with no
> > American military response.
> > "This shows us what is the punishment for using negotiations as
> an option
> > for terrorism." "
> >
> > J.
> >
> >
> > John Wilker
> > Web Applications Consultant
> > Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
> >
> > www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
> >
> > What does Snoop Dogg use to do his laundry? Blee-otch!
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:23 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> >
> >
> > LOL. Our two definitions of realist is somewhat different.
> Yours sounds to
> > me like saying HalfLife is "realistic".
> >
> > What if it was your mother, father, sister or brother who was
> "accused" of
> > what you are talking about?
> >
> > No, the high road is the ONLY road for us, that is what makes
> this country
> > so great and what will allow us to recover from this disaster. It is the
> > people like Bin Laden (and you) that share these attitudes and
> views. You
> > were born in the wrong country (or maybe not, where are you from?). You
> > should move to Afghanistan and take that low road.
> >
> > -Gary
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:06 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > >
> > >
> > > I prefer the term realist.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Wilker
> > > Web Applications Consultant
> > > Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
> > >
> > > www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
> > >
> > > What does Snoop Dogg use to do his laundry? Blee-otch!
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:56 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > >
> > >
> > > Nazi.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:47 PM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > well if you had shot them all then they would not be a problem. I
> > > > know it's
> > > > harsh and it sucks and you know what, life sucks in a lot of ways.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with taking the high road all the time is that you
> > > > are up there
> > > > for everyone to shoot at.
> > > >
> > > > Just think how much power the IRA would have if in the
> > beginning GB had
> > > > killed hundreds for even being suspected... I know I'd be very
> > > > leery to join
> > > > up. And just think how many terrorists cells will be less
> > likely to mess
> > > > with the US if we take them and the country harboring them
> > out. How many
> > > > countries are likely to continue harboring these fiends?
> > > >
> > > > The saying is "For every action there is an equal and opposite
> > > reaction",
> > > > not "For every action we will take the high road and be better
> > > > people" while
> > > > our friends and family are killed at will by people who don't
> > > really care
> > > > if they are sinking to a lower level.
> > > >
> > > > J.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John Wilker
> > > > Web Applications Consultant
> > > > Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
> > > >
> > > > www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
> > > >
> > > > What does Snoop Dogg use to do his laundry? Blee-otch!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Kevin Gilchrist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:30 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't think you understand. GB did try and put away all the
> > > > terrorists at
> > > > the start by introducing emergency powers and internment. They
> > > basically
> > > > went out and imprisoned hundreds of people without trial.
> > > >
> > > > Guess what happened?
> > > >
> > > > A some of those folks weren't terrorists at all
> > > > B Because of A, it just galvanised the nationalist community
> > and people
> > > > joined the IRA in droves.
> > > >
> > > > That sort of solution isn't fighting fire with fire, it's poring
> > > > gas on the
> > > > fire.
> > > > Good job the GB didn't just round em into a field and shoot them.
> > > > God knows
> > > > what would have happened then.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:17 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No they're the reason that something like this happens so
> > > infrquently here
> > > > and the rest of the world is terrorized so often. You think
> > our airports
> > > > became unsecure in the last few months. This could have
> > happenned at any
> > > > time for years now, but no one has been organized or gutsy enough
> > > > to pull it
> > > > off, now they have and the US needs to make it clear to the
> > > world that we
> > > > won't put up with it the way GB puts up with the IRA. If you
> > > > hunted down the
> > > > IRA and got done with the whole thing you wouldn't have to be
> > afraid of
> > > > bombs each day going off. Clearly the ignore it and it will go
> > > > away approach
> > > > is not the right one.
> > > >
> > > > J.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:06 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: Communication about the attack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeez, listen to yourself? Your opinion(s) are why acts like
> > > > these are aimed
> > > > at the US! Do we in GB decide to carpet bomb Ireland after the
> > > IRA or its
> > > > breakaway groups explose a bomb in London or in the UK?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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