I apologize for the misunderstanding then. Are you saying you are
black? I do accept the apology either way <g>.

> I'm not white!  And I don't mean to lecture you, so I apologize if it
> comes across that way.

this is what I was thinking when I went into this conversation.
However what about those Urban Institute studies? If kids get treated
differently even in good schools over their color then *something* is
wrong. What about all those black men in prison? Surely you don't
think they're there because the system is fair.

> but we don't need affirmative action any longer to protect us.  If
> you're smart and have discipline, AA is insulting - it's unneeded
> assistance offered to the perceived weak.

OK so maybe *you* didn't ned help. You were smart enough brave enough
disciplined enough. Maybe middle-class enough. But does this mean that
nobody out there does need help? Still? I grant you that there is
probably a better way than giving them admissions preference and then
saying look see they don't want to succeed when the inner city kids
crash and burn...

> I don't need any special help or programs to reach my goals and I
> would get pretty insulted if someone took a look at me and thought I
> did - before I ever said a word.  And that's what affirmative actions
> does.

Right now i am not talking legalities. I am talking fairness. 

> At the U of MI, didn't black kids get 20 points just for being black?
> That's wrong.  Using race (or better worded, culture) as a single
> factor among many is fine.

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