Momo,
I dont' think anyone implied or feels that any persons life is worth more
than anothers. No one discussed the "means" of getting rid of Palestinians.
The media has long since stopped making a big deal about the deaths of
palestinians because its a common event - however, quite frankly, its quite
easy to stop the palestinians deaths. Stop the palestinian terrorism.
other comments inline
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mo mo [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 7:02 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
>
> This is the first time I say anything on this list, I
> usually just enjoy reading the posts when I get a
> chance, and use it get some CF help which is why im on
> this list in the first place.
>
> But the recent posts, especially the ones discussing
> means of eliminating the Palestinians, and if it is ok
> to use Biological weapons and going through the
> history of who used it and why should Israel use it,or
> what should Israel have done, and what means did
> other countries use, and all that good stuff..well,
> im a Palestinian and if anyone is really series about
> there remarks and want to act on them, you need not
> look too far, bring it on....and this is by no means
> an aggression towards anyone, just a feeling of anger
> hearing people discuss or suggest or justify ways for
> eliminating me and my family and my people...
>
> What happens in Palestine or Israel its very tragic,
> on both sides...not just when innocent Israeli's die,
> but also when innocent Palestinians die..
>
BAF: I don't think anyone disagrees, with this, although I have less
respect for the life of a terrorist (that has no respect for the lives of
others) than I do for another person.
> .Of course
> I'm not implying that a Palestinians life is of equal
> value of an Israeli life, God forbid I think that ,
> when Israeli die, its front line news, live coverage,
> breaking news, interviews, you would think it just
> happened in your local city or neighborhood, and not
> in an area of the world where there is killings
> everyday, but that's the way it is,and that's what
> sells......
>
BAF: Not sure what country you are in, but quite frankly in most countries
in the past year or so the Palestinians have gotten great press and the
media sentiment has turned very favorable towards them, as far as I can see.
> .5 kids got blown into small pieces a week
> while going to school by an army bomb, CNN gave it
> less than a minute coverage and it was an old
> story.....and I sure don't remember any one on this
> list mentioning it.......no one cares to know how and
> why a palestinian get killed, its just an automatic
> assumption that they were throwing rocks protesting
> occupation, as if occupation is such a good thing and
> the Palestinians are just so darn stupid that they
> don't know it...
>
BAF: Are you saying that the Palestinian extremeists dont' send kids to
throw rocks at Israeli troops? Because of course they do. Its sad even
then - sad when children are used as pawns and sadder when they die, but
quite frankly its inexcusable. You dont' use children to fight your war to
try and manipulate the world. And quite frankly if you do do such things,
it becomes difficult to feel horrible when children do die walking to school
because we can't know the circumstances. Its like the boy who cried wolf:
you send kids to get killed to show the world how horrible you are treated
enough times, the world doesn't believe when you are really wronged when it
happens or else the world knows how much some of your people value their
children. The world loses respect.
> This issue is not the Jews vs. the Muslims, or the
> Jews vs. the Arabs, or whos land is it, there existed
> Jews years before 1948 all over the middle east,
> especially in Palestine, and the Palestinians where
> not going around killing them.......this is about
> Palestinians living under occupation, if you don't
> know what living under occupation means, then look it
> up, but what it is, is nothing that you would ever
> want yourself and your kids living in...
>
BAF: Uh, if you recall in 1948 the palestinians were OFFERED HALF OF the
land. They turned it down. Whose fault was that? If you dont' agree they
should have been offered only half, fair enough, but the rest of the world
disagreed. Since then the israelis have been attacked and attacked and
attacked. At the end of this email I will post that same history I posted
before, so you can read it.
> its
> de-humanizing, its degrading, its sickening, and its
> disgusting, its nothing short of living as a slave all
> your life, and then getting old and hopeless and
> seeing your kids and grandkids going through it all
> over again........
>
BAF:No, being a slave is much different than living in a nation of folks of
another nationality. Erika? Is living in the UK like being a slave?
BAF: And once again I point out that the palestinians turned down the lands
that were to be theirs.
> It is the right of every nation and
> people to live free.... but when the Palestinians,
> after more than 50 years of living in occupation,
> revolt against there oppressors, its fanatics and
> extremist, and animals like the NY POST calls
> them.....
>
BAF: The Palestinians are opressed becuase of their extremist behavior.
Because of their lack of regard for human life. If they behaved like
civilized citizens they wouldn't be opressed.
> the point is not to kill Israelis which
> people see as killing Jews, the point is to fight an
> occupation, its to say that the Palestinians don't
> want to live occupied, why is that such a bad thing ?
> didn't every nation or group of people fight for its
> right to exist, if the Palestinians do nothing, it
> mean that they are happy with what they have, which is
> nothing, and they accept it...
>
BAF: Once again, the palestinians turned down the lands they were offered.
Why should they get all of the lands? They are more entitled to it than the
israelis?
> I really hope that the killings stop, but on both
> sides......
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I just had to say
> something when its matters such as eliminating me and
> my family and my people off of the face of the
> world....you know, have an input at least!!!
>
BAF: This pisses me off, NOT ONE PERSON said we should eliminate all
palestinians off the face of the earth and its extremely unfair and quite
extremist of you to assume that we think so. I am a jew. I believe the
israelis and the palestinians should share israel and live in peace, but of
course the palestinian extremeists make this impossible - dont they? Even
you imply that this is impossible because you are "opressed" and "enslaved".
How exactly are you "enslaved" by the israelis? Do they make you do hard
labor for them for free? do you have to worship gods of their choosing.
BAF:I have a great deal of sympathy for the palestinians, but your comments
are quite frankly, ridiculous. The people who have most wronged the
palestinians are the other arab countries who have not taken in the
palestinian people and actually stolen lands intended for them. They USE
your people to gain world support without actually helping them.
A brief history of israel: again:
The WORLD gave israel to the israelis' 53 years ago because the UN deemed it
appropriate after the jews had been exiled, and killed all over the world
for thousands of years.
A brief history of israel for you, who obviously doesnt' understand it.
Most of this is paraphrased from a pro-Peace site, so its not particularly
Israeli biased or anything:
At the time Israel was created all Arab regimes - including Palestinian
leaders of the time - categorically rejected the partition plan and vowed to
destroy Israel. At that time troops from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq
entered Palestine to support the local Palestinian Arabs. (i.e the arabs
were the attackers)
The war left the new Israeli state with 80 per cent of the territory that
was to have been divided between the two communities. The number of Arabs
within Israel had been reduced from around 700,000 to 165,000. Many had fled
in the face of the Israeli counter-attack, spurred on by news of real - and
invented - massacres in Arab villages. Few imagined that they would never
return to their homes.
What was left of Arab territory in Palestine was soon incorporated into
neighbouring states. Egypt took over administration of the Gaza strip and
Transjordan (now just Jordan) took over the sizeable West Bank, which
included the Old City of Jerusalem, to create the Hashemite Kingdom of
Jordan. (so egypt and jordan took land intended for the palestinians and
KEPT IT for themselves)
Then we had the Suez Canal conflict: Nasser took the Suez canal and
blockaded the Straits of Tiran, Israel's only outlet into the Red Sea (i.e.
once again the ARABS were the aggressors). Israel promptly invaded Sinai on
October 29, 1956, and the former colonial powers Britain and France joined
her in what amounted to an invasion of Egypt. Israel was eventually forced
to relinquish its gains in Gaza and Sinai and the European powers to
withdraw. So despite the fact that the egyptians were the aggressors, Israel
had to return the land won.
The 6 Day War: Tension had been building throughout the first half of 1967,
with Israel warning the Arabs states to end their support for Arab
guerrillas raiding Israel from neighbouring countries (i.e. the arab
guerillas were performing terrorist acts on israeli citizens - the arabs
were once again the aggressors). The Arabs saw war as inevitable and,
despite the clear possibility of a surprise Israeli pre-emptive strike, they
were confident of victory this time. Israel attacked Egyptian airfields and
destroyed most of Egypt's air force on the ground within a couple of hours.
This allowed Israeli forces speedily to capture Sinai. Israel bussed their
troops back to Jerusalem and into the attack against Jordan, occupying the
West Bank and the Old City before Jordan accepted a UN demand for a
ceasefire on the evening of 7 June. Egypt accepted the following day,
allowing the Israelis to switch their attention to Syria. Quneitra in the
Golan Heights was occupied and Syria accepted the ceasefire on 10 June. The
defeat was so swift that Arab reinforcements from as far away as Algeria and
Kuwait were not able to arrive in time.
The Yom Kippur War (another Arab offense, what a surprise!): On October 6,
1973 - the Jewish Day of Atonement, an Israeli national holiday - Egyptian
forces blasted their way through the sand defences built around the Israeli
lines at the Suez Canal and succeeded in crossing the waterway. So once
again, the Arabs were the aggressors. The Egyptians made some initial gains
but this had to be balanced against Syrian loss of ground as the Israelis
recovered from their initial shock. At one point Israeli forces were only 24
miles from Damascus. The October war, in which 19,000 died, was at least a
victory for Egyptian and Syrian bluff. Present Anwar Sadat had previously
tempered some of his more violent rhetoric and no one believed the two Arab
countries had the stomach for another fight.
Probably only the Egyptians and Syrians knew of the plans. Other states,
including Jordan and Iraq, joined in after the initial offensive.
The Arabs showed that they had improved their strategy since 1967. They also
had better weapons from their ally, the Soviet Union, including an umbrella
of SAM missile defences. But the fact that the Israelis were able to recoup
made this far from an Arab victory in terms of military success.
Sadat went on to fly to Jerusalem in 1977 and become the first Arab leader
to make peace with Israel.
Lebanese Wars: This was in fact a series of wars, waged by Israeli to
counter the cross-border raids performed by Palestinian guerrillas in
Lebanon, Israel's northern neighbour. Once again the Israelis were attacked
by terrorists and chose to protect itself - i.e an ARAB aggression and
harboring of guerillas.
Israel had responded to Palestinian guerrilla attacks by several retaliatory
incursions, including a major operations in the late 1970s. But under prime
minister Menachem Begin and his hawkish defence minister Ariel Sharon,
Israel launched a full-scale invasion of its northern neighbour on 6 June,
1982.
The Israelis unilaterally withdrew from most of Lebanon in February 1985 but
still maintain a 'security zone' on the Lebanese side of the frontier. Who
can blame them?
Intifada: On December 6 1987, six Palestinian workers were killed in the
Gaza Strip when an Israeli ran into them with a truck. Palestinians were
convinced the accident was deliberate murder and three days later, a
Palestinian youth picked up a stone from the ground and threw it at an
Israeli patrol. His friends followed suit and soon hundreds joined in.
The spontaneous uprising in the occupied territories, after 20 years of
Israeli rule, took everyone by surprise, not least the exiled Palestinian
leadership which was forced to try to keep pace with events on the ground.
Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza had been under Israeli rule for a
generation and despite some stirrings here and there, Israel's domination
had gone largely unchallenged.
A bunch of teenagers were to change all that. Barricades were set up
throughout the territories, tyres were burned and the illegal Palestinian
flag hoisted in "liberated" areas. Women and old men would gather the stones
with which the Palestinian youth would bombard their oppressors. Israeli did
not know how to react. It was difficult to denounce such a popular and
uncoordinated movement as the work of "terrorists". Some political leaders
cautioned that Israel should pull back but the hardline "Iron Fist" policy
of defence minister Yitzhak Rabin prevailed. He famously advised the
security forces to break the bones of the rioters they detained. The
Israelis closed universities, deported alleged troublemakers, tore down
Palestinian homes - all to no avail. The unrest nevertheless galvanised the
international community into finding a permanent solution, a process that
culminated in the Oslo agreement in 1993.
The Current Conflicts: I'll assume you can read the newspaper and understand
the current conflicts going on. Israel gave Palestinians certain areas to
live in but limited freedoms and movements. Wouldn't you if it was your
country who had been systematically attacked by these people over and over
again? The palestinians are pissed and do stupid arab things like send 7
year old kids to shoot at soldiers and then hold them up to the press when
they get killed. I certainly don't condone killing civilians but I think at
this point Israel has had quite enough...who can blame them after reading
the above.
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