That is not true at all Beth. These offenses go on all the time in countries we support(ed). Right wing dictatorships all over Central and South American, Africa and Indonesia to name a few. Thousands of people have died in Chiapas. We are not kicking Mexico's ass are we? Don't try to make this into some moral battle, let the government do that (and the media). This is not about that at all. There are greater interests here than a War on Terror.
-Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Fleischer, Beth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:16 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > Actually, if I had my druthers the US would have removed the taliban from > power long ago - we did in other countries where these types of offenses > were taking place, but not in afghanistan. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Will Swain [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:32 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > I think whats interesting is how the media began to demonise the Taliban > > after sept 11. Granted, they don't need much deionisation, but > what I find > > interesting is that the governments of the west have been totally > > uninterested in the Taliban's human rights offences for years. > > > > This is pure media manipulation. You don't have to lie to manipulate > > people, > > you just decide when and how you tell them the truth, and which > truth you > > tell them. Lots of publicity about how outrageously the Taliban treat > > women, > > how viciously they treat their own people, and as if by magic, everyone > > thinks what a good and just idea it is to step into their country and > > overthrow their government. To say it makes no difference how the facts > > are > > delivered is a innocent view at best. Of course it matters. The media > > decide > > when and what news to tell us. The have an editorial bias that begins > > before > > the first word is written. > > > > An interesting twist on this is the Northern Alliance's treatment of > > foreign > > Taliban prisoners of war. Last I heard there were international > laws that > > govern the treatment of prisoners of war. Executing them is not allowed. > > Breach of human rights anyone. I just hope this doesn't come > back and bite > > the coalition on the arse, when news of the Northern Alliance's hideous > > human rights offences starts appearing in a few years time. > > > > will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 05 December 2001 05:17 > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me boil > down for you > > what I hear you saying: > > > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the nuance may be > off because > > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" news is some how > > obscured. > > > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a degree, and no longer > > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to base any > > conclusions > > this "newstainment." > > > > Am I understanding you correctly? > > > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for beating, stoning and > > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it on a network news > > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left out. A > Taliban denial > > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't mean to stone > those women > > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.") > > > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because that's what > I hear you > > saying. And I find it pretty offensive. > > > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are > delivered. And no > > amount of political correctness (in this case, the liberal mantra of we > > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly justify what the > > Taliban > > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan. > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > Beth, > > > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated > understanding of my > > original post. But allow me at least the oppertunity to expand my > > perspetive > > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, even though the > > original > > post was not even address to you. > > > > I may have refered to television (and this can be broadened to any > > corporately own/operated news service) as manufactured, but I did not in > > any > > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News services > (mostly) deliver > > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like coka > cola; coke is > > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the "oppression of > > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end result delivered > > by > > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a manufacured construct > > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. This is how I view > > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no different from, > > and > > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by the > nineties film > > "Wag the Dog". > > > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with emotive music and > > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. Exactly whose > > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond the reach of this > > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of presentations > are not at > > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the entertainment > industry as > > a > > whole. > > > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find making > judgements upon > > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of information offensive. > > > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the lack on true > > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My oppinion on the news > > is > > an extension of this logic. > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > Folks!! > > > > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women is a > myth, made up > > by > > > the media. > > > > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani women several years ago > > when > > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. Did she make > it up too? > > was > > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories she > told of women > > > being killed for walking down the street with a man whom they weren't > > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female lawyers and doctors > > made > > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she was no longer > > allowed > > to > > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies about the wonderful > > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to teach girls > dont' exist > > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE allowed to go to > > school? > > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it was made up for > > WHAT > > > REASON? > > > > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to music again, shaving > > their > > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really oppressed > its just a > > > media invention, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily limited in it's > > representation > > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media east as it's > exists for > > us). > > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often designed to promote > > this > > > > kind > > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being the > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of women in > > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the developed and made > > self > > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media outlets until they > > become > > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial popularity. There > > simplify > > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture for the fast > food culture > > > > that > > > > is America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 kids. There were PA > > police > > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the news > from it. There > > > > were > > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over it. I know people > > who > > > > live > > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do many others. > > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. It > started with a > > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real footage. > > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions of some truly > > sick > > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the suffering of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As or your second quesion... > > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids > > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know how that is > > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the > > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a women > > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings its > > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, was > > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which was > > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no media > > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or > > > > > >confirm the reports.... > > > > > > > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do > > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there does > > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the streets, > > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow found her > > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the > > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more > > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a Palestinian > > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of > > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens and > > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was > > > > > >happening here.. > > > > > > > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to get there > > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women came > > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!! > > > > > > > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i wouldnt > > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old lady > > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, which > > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for > > > > > >joy!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your ad could be here. 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