I am not sure that you can say matter of factly that it is not a deterrent.

It's not something you can quantify.

There are lots of people the commit murder (or other crimes) knowing full well 
that if they are caught, they will be penalized... so for them, no it is not a 
deterrent.

However, your agument could be equally refuted by saying 'more people do not 
murder people than DO murder people' --so maybe it is a deterrent.  Do I avoid 
killing because I'm worried about going to jail? Do I avoid killing because I'm 
not a violent person? Do I avoid killing because the voices told me to have a 
cup of coffee and write a crystal report this morning instead?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying that 'people still murder 
people' is not an adequate argument toward the concept of 'punishment is not a 
detterent'.

Myself, I can say matter of factly, that I have made decisions in my life 
(speeding, drug use, what-have-you) based on the possibility of legal 
consequences.

--
Jillian

>> Drug offenses are different in 2 ways:
>
>Since the users of the drugs aren't paying attention anyway it simply
>proves my point that the 'deterrent' is not a deterrent at all...
>
>Same as threatening capital punishment for murder.
>
>or threatening someone with dismemberment for stealing.
>
>
>--
>will
>
>
>"If my life weren't funny, it would just be true;
>and that would just be unacceptable."
>- Carrie Fisher

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