I dont really want to get into a pissing contest with you either as we'd have to enter in different categories. But with all of the great respect that is due, and realizing that it is easy for me to say this not having been shot at this year -- and by the way, I truly respect you for serving:
That is probably true. However, that logic is like a kid saying that little Joey won't play fair so he won't either. Ethically, it is irrelevant, regardless of the legalistics. I don't think we should be about torture. But even more so, what bothers me is that IT DOES NOT WORK. I am aware that sometimes bad things need to be done and I might actually be in favor of doing them to save lives *if* and here is the key phrase, if they were effective. So far not one story has surfaced abuot how we slapped some bad terrorist around and he gave us the info to prevent a disaster. And I don't think the administration would be shy about trumpeting it if there were one. And every one of those people in Abu Ghraib has brothers and sisters and cousins. All of whom are now convinced that the United States is evil. I think Harry Truman was right to drop the bomb. I am glad I did not have to do that myself, but in cold rationality he saved more lives than he took, however horribly they ended. But to wrap onself up in the flag and say yeah, article this subclause that, depends on how you define torture... is this really who you want speaking for the land of the fre and the home of the brave? Cheney of the five deferments, who calls brave veterans traitors for daring to suggest that his strategy might be flawed? Really? Dana PS - I hope that you can see that the passion in this is not that I am angry with you but that it really seems hallucinatory to me that we are doing McCarthy all over again so soon. Who loves ya ;) On 11/21/05, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One more point. > > We have only ever agreed not to torture LEGAL COMBATANTS. > > Dana, I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you, but these guys are > not LEGAL COMBATANTS. > > Plain and simple, no distinguishing mark, uniform or ID card. > > We can kill or torture at will. I was never shot at by a guy in a uniform. > Not once. > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 10:37 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: [politics] just look at the headlines > > > > > > a minor story?????????????????????????? > > > > My friend, I don't know what to say. Is it a minor story that Cheney > > wants to exempt the CIA from restrictions on torture? What about the > > use of chemical weapons in Fallujah, is that a minor story? When > > Saddam used chemical weapons, was that a minor story? > > > > My god Sam. Just when I was starting to wonder if you might not have a > > mind after all. > > > > Dana > > > > On 11/21/05, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I didn't hear Cheney call him a coward. The one congresswoman that did > > > was speaking for a marine, which was a terrible thing to do. Speak for > > > your self or have the Marine stand there and make his comment but to > > > call a hero a coward and say "well they're not my words" is shameful. > > > As for the other Republicans I think they just repeated what Murtha > > > said last year. Murtha said he's now changed his mind. They haven't. > > > Sounds fair to me. > > > > > > It did seem Murtha's main reason for changing his mind is because the > > > insurgent attacks are growing. He blames that on Abu Ghraib saying if > > > we can't win the hearts of the people we've lost the war. Abu Ghraib > > > was played to the max by the left leaning press and the anti-war > > > movement. Seems like the press is helping us lose. I'm not saying > > > ignore what happened but it was a minor story spun into a major abuse > > > story. > > > > > > > > > On 11/21/05, Gruss Gott wrote: > > > > > > > Speaking of spin/anti-spin I had to, again, be appalled by Republicans > > > > this weekend, but it could've been Democrats too. > > > > > > > > You had Cheney, Hastert, and that new Ohio congresswoman call John > > > > Murtha a "coward". This is a Vietnam combat veteran with 2 purple > > > > hearts and a bronze star. > > > > > > > > And for what? To have a policy disagreement. > > > > > > > > Making policy depends on predicting the future which, of course, can't > > > > be done accurately. So the debate should include what-ifs, past > > > > experiences, and reasoned speculations. > > > > > > > > Instead, when Mr. Murtha brings forward a respectable strategy (backed > > > > up by former Reagan Nat'l Security Advisor Gen Odom) he is attacked > > > > personally. > > > > > > > > Any politician that has done that, or condoned that, should > > be impeached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:183483 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
