wow. one thing, larry is far from pompous... he is a gentle soul from what i could tell. we are all VERY over smart people thats why we do what we do and how we do it...
some of us just do not know to iterate everything we have to say, in the best method. like a pizza delivery going to the wrong house. Great pizza, bad delivery. tw On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't *think* I am demented :) But a) no it is not the issue and b) I can > see that the thread would be confusing. So here is a brief synopis. > > 1. Jill asks what people are having for supper > 2. My answer - various health drinks; ginko balboa is mentioned > 3. Sam says I heard that didn't work > 4. In the throes of much caffeine I get sarcastic and say work for WHAT is > the question. > 5. Sam mentions memory, a previous lengthy thread here > 6. I tell him that's not why I had them add it to my smoothie and mention > the anticoagulant properties > 7. relatively amiable discussion, I summarize by saying right, some people > think it helps with dementia, there isn't much in the way of studies on > memory outside of that, but this si irrelevant, yada yada yada. I posted all > these studies in a discussion with Jim Davis months ago. > 8. Larry having apparentlly read none of the above jumps in to say that > science has proven that ginko balboa has no effect at all and once again > posts a link that does not seem to support what he is saying. > 9. I post link to study showing that ginko balboa potentiates coumadin, > wondering wtf, does Larry really think I would not have researched an > illness I had -- maybe I should tell him there's no evidence his insulin > pump works and he is a poor deluded soul clinging to hope when all is > hopeless :) > > 10. In a nutshell - It's a stupid argument. Larry is a pompous asshole who > should not give a shit WHAT supplement I have them add to my smoothie. But > he has it in his head that he is Mr Science and so obviously right that any > study out there must naturally support his suprficial suppositions. > > back to work > Dana > On 12/4/05, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > i get that... but dementia... was that the issue? > > or some blood/circulation disorder. im demented too, its > > ok if you are :) > > > > tw > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > coumadin is an anti-coagulant. So is ginko balboa. > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > i guess i have no idea what this is all about. > > > > and what is coumadin for? > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > ok I went and looked anyway. It does say that there is a benefit if > > the > > > > > doses are pooled. Not quite sure what that means, but it does tend > > to > > > > > indicate that the issue is a little more complex than you portray it > > to > > > > be. > > > > > Again. > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > tsk as usually you are poo pooing without reading. You'd be funny > > if > > > > you > > > > > > weren't so condescending. The attitude of real science indeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, I am talking about anticoagulation, as Sam has already > > > > realized. > > > > > > Remember that the next time you call him a Neanderthal. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for your study, don't have time. It may say this but given your > > > > track > > > > > > record I am willing to bet it says more than that too. In any > > event > > > > there > > > > > > are other studies, peer-reviewed, my friend. See the archives; > > posted > > > > them > > > > > > this summer. Ther aren't a lot -- there are problems with > > establishing > > > > a > > > > > > standard does as I have already mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that this Cocheran based meta analysis summarizes the > > > > attitude > > > > > > > of real science, there is no real effect for ginko beyond a > > placebo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.antiwrap.com/?789 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ginkgo biloba Compared with Cholinesterase Inhibitors in the > > > > Treatment > > > > > > > of Dementia: A Review Based on Meta-Analyses by the Cochrane > > > > > > > Collaboration > > > > > > > A. Kurza, B. Van Baelenb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aDepartment of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Technical > > University > > > > > > > Munich, Munich, Germany; > > > > > > > bMedisearch International, Mechelen, Belgium > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dementia and Geriatric Cognitive Disorders 2004;18:217-226 (DOI: > > > > > > > 10.1159/000079388) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Data were derived from the Cochrane Collaboration meta-analyses > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > efficacies of ginkgo, donepezil, rivastigmine and galantamine on > > > > > > > changes in cognitive function in patients with dementia and, > > where > > > > > > > necessary, were transformed to standardized mean differences. > > The > > > > > > > proportion of patients discontinuing trials was used as a proxy > > > > > > > measure of tolerability. Outcomes were assessed after 6 months > > of > > > > > > > treatment. Trial data for cholinesterase inhibitors were more > > > > > > > consistent than those for ginkgo, particularly regarding patient > > > > > > > populations and outcome measures. Significant benefits on > > cognition > > > > > > > vs. placebo were seen with donepezil, 5 and 10 mg, rivastigmine, > > > > 6-12 > > > > > > > mg, and galantamine, 16 and 24 mg. Significant benefit vs. > > placebo > > > > > > > with ginkgo was seen only when all doses were pooled. Similar > > > > > > > proportions of patients discontinued treatment with ginkgo and > > > > > > > placebo. Cholinesterase inhibitors were also well tolerated, > > > > although > > > > > > > a significantly greater proportion of patients receiving active > > > > > > > treatment discontinued vs. placebo with some doses. An > > > > evidence-based > > > > > > > medicine approach, taking into account the quality of clinical > > > > trials, > > > > > > > is essential when assessing the safety and efficacy of > > medications. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Purchase Dreamweaver with Homesite Plus from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=54 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:185695 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
