What? We didn't have a welfare system for well over a hundred years, but people didn't run wild killing each other in the streets. They got jobs, or their family helped out, or their church.
Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:43 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > I think that Gruss doesn't realize that a country without a > welfare program > is going to be run over by criminals killing others for gain. > Case in point: > New Orleans > > - Matt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:56 PM > Subject: Re: Next in line to be labelled Dictator by America > > > > We all make mistakes and bad choices, Gruss. Some of us get penalized > > more savagely than others. By the way, from what I remember, Enron > > employees were not given any option for their retirement account > > besides Enron stock. > > > > Outside of empathy though, it is generally better to take care of > > social problems while they are small. For example. Bob Doe has worked > > in the mailroom at Enron for 10 years. He is pretty good at his job. > > Since he wants to send his kids to college (isn't that the American > > dream?) he moonlights somewhere else. > > > > Enron goes kablooie through no fault of his own. I know your scenario > > says that Bob should have gotten an MBA and a job with another > > corporation but who is to say that this other corporation would no > > thave been playing the same games with its balance sheet? And he would > > be even more vulnerable there as a new hire. Anyway, so Bob can't make > > his mortgage payment. Bob runs through unemployment, which is still > > not enough to make the mortgage payment though it does put food on the > > table (Bob being a proud sort does not want to apply for food stamps). > > > > Eventually Bob loses the house and we have Bob and his wife and his > > kids now NEED food stamps. Except that this does not get them into > > housing and they do the shelter system for a couple of years waiting > > for subsidized housing to come available. Meanwhile, the kids wind up > > at the crappiest of public schools and learn that the grownup world is > > both arbitrary and stupid. Frustrated, they turn to drugs and > > delinquency. > > > > Total costs under this scenario are far higher than they would have > > been if Bob had gotten some job coaching and maybe a low-cost loan to > > help with his mortgage payment in time for it to do him some good. > > Sure, if he had gotten himself an MBA and a cool new job with Arthur > > Anderson he might not be there (wait a minute).... but then again > > there would always be a mailroom clerk at Enron, see my point? > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > On 1/10/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > Dana wrote: > >> > I'll agree with everything you say except granny dying in the street. > >> > >> Here's my problem with that: granny used to be 20 and clearly made > >> some bad decisions to get to the point you're talking about. You have > >> to take a step back and ask, "Is it government's role to subsidize > >> people's mistakes?" > >> > >> So, for example, should the guy who lost all of his retirement because > >> he put it all into ENRON get a "do over" on the tax payer coin? I > >> say no. > >> > >> I'd much rather see the majority of that money put into empowerment > >> programs like education than I would want to see it subsidizing > >> people's mistakes. (yes, yes, the education system is broken. So we > >> fix it via privatization :) > >> > >> In reality, however, no matter how good your empowerment programs are > >> you're always going to have a few problems: > >> > >> 1.) People that can't compete due to birth (special needs). > >> 2.) People that can't compete due to consequences (drug addicts, > >> alcoholics) > >> 3.) People that, no matter how much you empower them, will still fail. > >> > >> So you need to shore up those holes. But not before you empower > >> people by telling them they're on their own. > >> > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:191549 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
