I agree with most of what you have said below - if someone isn't comfortable with another persons religious acts, its just too bad.
However, I disagree about dodge ball - any game which is used to make geeky kids feel geekier and athletic kids feel superior shouldn't be encouraged by teachers, IMO. --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:46 PM Subject: RE: Church and State > Interesting you should touch on the "comfortable issue." I was just > thinking about this earlier today and how this is one variable we haven't > touched on this discussion. > > The great liberal commandment: "Thou shalt not make another person > uncomfortable." That's B.S. > > There is no guarantee, not in the constitution, not in nature, not in the > normal course of human interaction that you will always feel comfortable. > Education, by its very nature, is discomforting. > > One of the most ridiculous things I've read about recently is schools > banning that age-old school yard game, dodge ball. They ban it because, > gosh darn it, some kids just aren't good at it. Well, I wasn't the best > athlete in elementary school and was often picked last for teams. And while > I couldn't dodge the ball very well, I sure could throw it (learning to > throw was a skill my dad taught me early, thankfully). It was always a great > feeling of accomplishment when I threw the ball and hit one of the kids who > were among those who teased me. It was a legal and unchallengeable chance > for revenge. Furthermore, many of the greatest Americans, politicians and > business leaders, were kids who were not the toughest in school, or the most > skilled. They were nerds, often. Yet, being teased, being made > uncomfortable, made them stronger, and they often by passed the "cool" kids > by the time they became adults. > > In uncomfort, sometimes life's greatest lessons are learned. Instead of > teaching kids that nobody has a right to make them feel uncomfortable, we > need to teach them that they need to grow a thicker skin. > > Because religion makes someone uncomfortable is a very poor reason to keep > religion out of schools. Religion is one of the most fundamental aspects of > life. It informs our entire history. Much of our classic literature is > nearly unintelligible without an understanding of Western religious > traditions. Instead of teaching children that religion is something evil > and should be left unsaid, pushed into a corner and dismissed as irrelevant, > maybe we should teach them about tolerance and acceptance of religious > belief. That's probably the best reason, because all of the legal and > constitutional ones, for making sure some accommodations are made for > religion on our school grounds. > > H. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:59 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > >That is why there are churches too. > > But the students don't go to the same church, they do go to the same school. > > > > A teacher can use their room for a group, like the drama club and that > > > doesn't bother you, but if it is a religious club, you just > > > happen to want > > > to study in that room. > > > >What? This is a flawed argument. Religion is highly volatile. You totally > >missed my point in the email. > > I don't think I missed your point. You think that groups should be allowed > to use the school so long as they are not limited to people of a certain > religion. But then you said "But my point is that I may want to go there to > study or whatever." > > So you are saying that groups who only allow people of a certain religion > to join don't keep you from studying. But others don't? Also the school > provides facilities made specifically for students to study, it is mandated > to be quite, and there are ample research tools to use. > > >No big deal. Not a Christian argument anyway, it is a religious one. > >Religion should be kept out of public areas payed for by all of our tax > >dollars from people from all denominations (and no denominations). I do not > >want anyone, anywhere, to be made to feel uncomfortable by people > practicing > >there faith in a public area, for whatever reason and whatever faith. It > >seems simple enough to just use a church for this. > > Groups use school facilities all the time. The private catholic school > plays basketball against the public school in school facilities. Is there > anything wrong with this? > > So what you are saying, Religious groups can't use park facilities, > schools, community centers, or the like if they show up as a group? The > people pay taxes just like the rest of us, why keep them from using their > facilities? So for churches that don't have any open lawn want to hold a > picnic at the local park and they call to reserve a shelter, they should be > denied? That seems like they are being denied the right to assemble. > > I am sick of the idea that people should go out of there way to make you > comfortable. So what. If you aren't comfortable seeing a Moslem stop and > pray when the time comes, even if he just happens to be walking down the > street, then that is your problem, not mine or anybody else's. You seeing > that makes you that uncomfortable, then get a grip, we are a divers > society, we should be glad people do that and are not ridiculed. To hide > things like this takes away from one of the great abilities of this country. > > We are different, many cultures, many people, living their lives in peace, > nobody feeling out of place. If we could open our eyes, and see that just > because this person pray at dusk, this person prays at dawn, and this > person doesn't pray, that we are still people, and we can be friends, and > we can respect each other. Differences of faith or opinion should not keep > people from being comfortable. > > If you are uncomfortable seeing people go about their lives, then stay at > home and close the blinds. While you have the right to go about your lives, > the rest of us have the right to go about ours. We should not out of our > way to hide our differences, we should go out of our way to celebrate them. > > I don't care about Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, If you have read what I > said in many other posts, I am not a Christian, I am an agnostic. If you > would look beyond your general dislike for people with faith, you would see > that they are people too. If one person would allow one group access, but > not another, then that is wrong, as matter of fact it is illegal. > > If you read the first Amendment to the Constitution it states: > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > This to me says that any law passed that has any thing to do with religion > is unconstitutional. It also states that people have the right to assemble > so long as they don't cause any trouble. > > You can't deny a group use of public facilities because it might cause a > problem. This would be like arresting somebody for just saying hello to a > prostitute. You can't do it. There must first be a crime, then deal with > it. If you feel a problem might occur, make the group pay for additional > security. That is what the KKK does when they get on the court house steps > in cities around the country. They preach hate, they want to cause violence > and hatred, and they scream it from the most public place of all. > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
