Challenged sure! But a game whose premise is to hit other folks as hard as possible with a ball isn't what I would call challenging, its what i would call unsportsmanlike.
--Beth, Pseudo usenet cop Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Church and State > Dodge ball is not used to make geeky kids feel geekier and athletic kids > feel superior. It's a game that gives kids exercise and helps them with > eye hand coordination not to mention have a little fun. It also teaches > kids how to work as a team in order to achieve a common goal. It > teaches kids how to deal with failure and also how to win humbly. These > are important life lessons for kids to learn. You would actually be > doing those kids that you consider geeky a disservice. Extending your > logic, maybe the schools should lower their standards so that dumb kids > aren't made to feel dumber and smart kids superior and higher standards > of education should not be encouraged by teachers. Music programs > should be cut because some kids aren't musically inclined and in order > to save them from shame, we should not encourage such things. Cut art > classes because some kids can't even draw a stick figure. Kids need to > be challenged. Absurd. > > Michael Corrigan > Programmer > Endora Digital Solutions > 1900 S. Highland Avenue, Suite 200 > Lombard, IL 60148 > 630/627-5200 x-136 > 630/627-5255 Fax > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BethF > To: CF-Community > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: Church and State > > > I agree with most of what you have said below - if someone isn't > comfortable > with another persons religious acts, its just too bad. > > However, I disagree about dodge ball - any game which is used to make > geeky > kids feel geekier and athletic kids feel superior shouldn't be > encouraged by > teachers, IMO. > > --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop > Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike > Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:46 PM > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > > Interesting you should touch on the "comfortable issue." I was just > > thinking about this earlier today and how this is one variable we > haven't > > touched on this discussion. > > > > The great liberal commandment: "Thou shalt not make another person > > uncomfortable." That's B.S. > > > > There is no guarantee, not in the constitution, not in nature, not > in the > > normal course of human interaction that you will always feel > comfortable. > > Education, by its very nature, is discomforting. > > > > One of the most ridiculous things I've read about recently is > schools > > banning that age-old school yard game, dodge ball. They ban it > because, > > gosh darn it, some kids just aren't good at it. Well, I wasn't the > best > > athlete in elementary school and was often picked last for teams. > And > while > > I couldn't dodge the ball very well, I sure could throw it (learning > to > > throw was a skill my dad taught me early, thankfully). It was always > a > great > > feeling of accomplishment when I threw the ball and hit one of the > kids > who > > were among those who teased me. It was a legal and unchallengeable > chance > > for revenge. Furthermore, many of the greatest Americans, > politicians and > > business leaders, were kids who were not the toughest in school, or > the > most > > skilled. They were nerds, often. Yet, being teased, being made > > uncomfortable, made them stronger, and they often by passed the > "cool" > kids > > by the time they became adults. > > > > In uncomfort, sometimes life's greatest lessons are learned. Instead > of > > teaching kids that nobody has a right to make them feel > uncomfortable, we > > need to teach them that they need to grow a thicker skin. > > > > Because religion makes someone uncomfortable is a very poor reason > to keep > > religion out of schools. Religion is one of the most fundamental > aspects > of > > life. It informs our entire history. Much of our classic literature > is > > nearly unintelligible without an understanding of Western religious > > traditions. Instead of teaching children that religion is something > evil > > and should be left unsaid, pushed into a corner and dismissed as > irrelevant, > > maybe we should teach them about tolerance and acceptance of > religious > > belief. That's probably the best reason, because all of the legal > and > > constitutional ones, for making sure some accommodations are made > for > > religion on our school grounds. > > > > H. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:59 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > > > > >That is why there are churches too. > > > > But the students don't go to the same church, they do go to the same > school. > > > > > > A teacher can use their room for a group, like the drama club > and that > > > > doesn't bother you, but if it is a religious club, you just > > > > happen to want > > > > to study in that room. > > > > > >What? This is a flawed argument. Religion is highly volatile. You > totally > > >missed my point in the email. > > > > I don't think I missed your point. You think that groups should be > allowed > > to use the school so long as they are not limited to people of a > certain > > religion. But then you said "But my point is that I may want to go > there > to > > study or whatever." > > > > So you are saying that groups who only allow people of a certain > religion > > to join don't keep you from studying. But others don't? Also the > school > > provides facilities made specifically for students to study, it is > mandated > > to be quite, and there are ample research tools to use. > > > > >No big deal. Not a Christian argument anyway, it is a religious > one. > > >Religion should be kept out of public areas payed for by all of our > tax > > >dollars from people from all denominations (and no denominations). > I do > not > > >want anyone, anywhere, to be made to feel uncomfortable by people > > practicing > > >there faith in a public area, for whatever reason and whatever > faith. It > > >seems simple enough to just use a church for this. > > > > Groups use school facilities all the time. The private catholic > school > > plays basketball against the public school in school facilities. Is > there > > anything wrong with this? > > > > So what you are saying, Religious groups can't use park facilities, > > schools, community centers, or the like if they show up as a group? > The > > people pay taxes just like the rest of us, why keep them from using > their > > facilities? So for churches that don't have any open lawn want to > hold a > > picnic at the local park and they call to reserve a shelter, they > should > be > > denied? That seems like they are being denied the right to assemble. > > > > I am sick of the idea that people should go out of there way to make > you > > comfortable. So what. If you aren't comfortable seeing a Moslem stop > and > > pray when the time comes, even if he just happens to be walking down > the > > street, then that is your problem, not mine or anybody else's. You > seeing > > that makes you that uncomfortable, then get a grip, we are a divers > > society, we should be glad people do that and are not ridiculed. To > hide > > things like this takes away from one of the great abilities of this > country. > > > > We are different, many cultures, many people, living their lives in > peace, > > nobody feeling out of place. If we could open our eyes, and see that > just > > because this person pray at dusk, this person prays at dawn, and > this > > person doesn't pray, that we are still people, and we can be > friends, and > > we can respect each other. Differences of faith or opinion should > not keep > > people from being comfortable. > > > > If you are uncomfortable seeing people go about their lives, then > stay at > > home and close the blinds. While you have the right to go about your > lives, > > the rest of us have the right to go about ours. We should not out of > our > > way to hide our differences, we should go out of our way to > celebrate > them. > > > > I don't care about Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, If you have read > what I > > said in many other posts, I am not a Christian, I am an agnostic. If > you > > would look beyond your general dislike for people with faith, you > would > see > > that they are people too. If one person would allow one group > access, but > > not another, then that is wrong, as matter of fact it is illegal. > > > > If you read the first Amendment to the Constitution it states: > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, > or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of > speech, > > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, > and to > > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > > > This to me says that any law passed that has any thing to do with > religion > > is unconstitutional. It also states that people have the right to > assemble > > so long as they don't cause any trouble. > > > > You can't deny a group use of public facilities because it might > cause a > > problem. This would be like arresting somebody for just saying hello > to a > > prostitute. You can't do it. There must first be a crime, then deal > with > > it. If you feel a problem might occur, make the group pay for > additional > > security. That is what the KKK does when they get on the court house > steps > > in cities around the country. They preach hate, they want to cause > violence > > and hatred, and they scream it from the most public place of all. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Macromedia ColdFusion 5 Training from the Source Step by Step ColdFusion http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201758474/houseoffusion Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
