"Since you've now moved on to personal attacks like this" How is that a personal attack? You are looking at only the negative parts of it and that is all you are posting about, at least I am trying to cover both sides.
"I never mentioned a spay, only a neuter (caster). While you may be able to debate about a spay being more traumatic due to the level of invasiveness, it's pretty absurd to say a neuter is "WAY" more traumatic than a declaw. Most vets don't even suture after a cat neuter and just let it heal naturally." I know that but I am bring it up because you are saying how painful it is for them and I brought those examples in because it's an easy way to compare them (pain wise). And correct when you do a cat neuter that you don't suture but you damn well better hope you tied the cords tight or the scrotum will fill up with blood.. which is a very common issue. When you declaw a kitten you also don't use sutures, when you declaw an adult you do use sutures. Kittens are also much more likely to be up and walking around the cage the same day with no limping or indications of pain. When they are still kittens their bones haven't fully developed and the area around them is very "loose" and when you do the declaw you are only cutting some skin and some ligaments which isn't very painful for them... now that does NOT apply to a grown cat. if you do see issues with kittens it is because someone did a sloppy job and managed to cut into the pads. When you do a cat neuter you you have got to slice open their nut sack, grab their testicle and pull it upwards to rip the attached ligaments away before you chop of their nut, tie it off with sutures or in a knot and let it slither back in but you are still pulling and stretching ligaments not cleanly cutting them. When you do a declaw on a kitten you slide a #15 blade between the bones and slice the ligaments, now if it was up to me I would rather have my ligaments sliced over having them ripped. "Great, so now we are going to compare our animals with human feelings and needs. " Well I said that because you were saying a spay didn't have much pain or discomfort when in reality it is a very painful procedure. Cutting through a layer of skin is one thing but going through skin AND muscle is much worse. "And a 15" incisions is hardly a valid comparison to the relatively small incision needed for a spay." A Kittens body is around what... maybe 10" or so long and you need to make a 3 - 4" incision and so if you are say 60" tall that same incision would be pretty large. "From here you start getting into more statements that have no scientific backing," Yeah maybe they don't have scientific backing (either has really anything you have said) Like I mentioned in there several times.. I am going off of what really happens on a day to day basis in vet hospitals. Maybe not scientific but certainly real world. "Here's a list of known vets that do not, or seldom do, declaws: " great!!! Thats about 0.00001% of the total veterinarians out there, so what about the others that do do it? shall we list those out? That # is about as many holistic drs that wont use modern day medications as well. Again you keep thinking I am all for this and I am not and I dont fucking know any other way to tell you that and have you actually understand it. we can stop going back n forth as I am not changing your mind and you aren't changing mine. Just answer this and we'll be done. In this case we are talking about greg... Greg, if you think at some point that you are going to have your cat declawed would you rather do it when it's young and less traumatic and would probably cause little or no side effects or wait and risk the possible complications that will come from doing it as an adult which "could" result in major behavioral issues which could lead you to put the cat to sleep, drop it off at the pound (basically a death sentence) or cause you to abandon the cat with no more intentions of taking care of it. If you don't plan on having it ever declawed then none of this is even relative. So in gregs case he could have a dilemma.... He could do as Mary states and wait and see what happens, the benefit is that maybe he WONT end up having it done but the kicker is that if he does wait and then decided it does need to be done his cat is now at risk for much more serious complications and of course you cant go back and start over. The unfortunate part to all this is that we can't educate or control the millions of cat owners out there and the fact is that there are tens of thousands of cats each year that are let out the door but not back in because of how they scratched up the new couch or whatever. Feel free to fight the good fight but it needs to be fought at the source of the problem not at where your beliefs start up. > > Part of your problem is that you choose to look at only the positive > > > parts of the things you agree with and only the negative things of > the > > ones you disagree with. > > Since you've now moved on to personal attacks like this, I'm not sure > this is even worth my time to reply to...particularly since this > applies WAY more to you as you are now even making up positive > conclusions about declawing that have zero scientific basis whatsover. > But will make a few quick points (there is so much in this I could > refute, but I have better things to do): > > > > a spay or neuter (especially a spay) IS > > WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more traumatic to the pet. > > I never mentioned a spay, only a neuter (caster). While you may be > able to debate about a spay being more traumatic due to the level of > invasiveness, it's pretty absurd to say a neuter is "WAY" more > traumatic than a declaw. Most vets don't even suture after a cat > neuter and just let it heal naturally. > > > > LOL!!! So if i come over and rip out your sexual organs so you cant > > > ever have sex again and according to you that would fill your life > > with happiness!! > > Great, so now we are going to compare our animals with human feelings > and needs. Okay fine, well if someone was going to never *allow* me to > have sex again, then YES absolutely I would want to give up having > cramps and bleeding every month and sexual desires that I can't act on. > Absolutely I would want that. Again, unless your solution is to let > all the cats roam and freely breed (which of course would result in > HUGE numbers of cats being put to sleep) this is just a specious > argument. > > > > Let me come over and make a 15" incision into your abdomen and take > a > > few organs out and stitch it back up and then I want to hear you say > > > this statement again. > > You shouldn't make such statements when you know nothing about me and > what medical procedures I have had done. I *have* had abdominal > surgery, and I've also had joint surgery, and from my own experience, > I would take the abdominal surgery any day. And a 15" incisions is > hardly a valid comparison to the relatively small incision needed for > a spay. If you are cutting the entire length of the cat's abdomen, no > wonder they are having trouble recovering from it! > > From here you start getting into more statements that have no > scientific backing, just your own personal conjecture about how many > wonderful things a declaw can do (apparently you have no problems > doing the very thing you accuse me of doing, of putting everything > into a positive light) so I'm not going to bother with them. I'll just > point out that declawing is hardly an accepted surgery among all vets, > so clearly this is not just a matter of my supposed lack of medical > knowledge. Here's a list of known vets that do not, or seldom do, > declaws: > > http://www.declaw.com/list.asp > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:248993 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
