----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: If you don't
> Howie Hamlin wrote: > > Our constitution and laws are, at the most basic, meant to protect citizens of the >United States. > > I don't think so. Granted I haven't read the entire constitution, but > the distinction between persons and citizens is made very clearly. And > amendments 4 and 5 are not just for citizens. > One could argue that the fourth amendment, which uses the term "people", > only refers to American citizens, but in lieu with for instance article > 1 section 2 of the Constitution this is doubtfull. Naturally, the fifth > amendment, which uses the term "person", can not just apply to citizens. > Believe me, any nation on the planet will protect itself when it comes to being attacked - The United States has a right to national defense even if it means limiting freedoms of non-citizens. Did you know that citizens rights are sometimes forfeited (for example, felons often have rights taken away) so I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that our government has the right to remove freedoms of non-citizens. > > > Whether these protections apply > > to foreign nationals is not part of our constitution - especially in times of war. >> During peaceful times, America and its freedoms > > are for citizens and non-citizens. In times of war, America has an obligation and >a right to do whatever is necessary to protect > > its citizens. > > I wonder how international treaties such as the Geneva Convention and > the "non first use treaty" relate to this. Are you saying that America > has an obligation not to honour these treaties if they may conflict with > protecting its citizens? > Non first use does not even apply to this topic. The Geneva convention, in times of war, only protects prisoners from harsh punishment - I don't think it applies to imprisonment or detention in general. > > > It's easy for other people to point the finger at America because we have so many >freedoms but, I assure you, that if > > it's a matter of lessening the freedoms of foreign nationals in order to protect >America then that's what will happen. > > After the PATRIOT act, there is nothing to assure. It already happened, > and I find it doubtfull that it will protect America. > Time will tell...but we have to do something...don't you think your country would try to protect itself??? > I am just wondering; when Bush promised to go after the people that > financed terrorism, did he realize that most of the IRA's funding comes > from America? How many people have been arrested for that? > It is illegal to fund foreign terrorism so if someone were found to be doing this then I would imagine that they would be arrested. Howie > Jochem > > PS, would you mind taking a look at your settings for line wrapping? > > ______________________________________________________________________ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
