Less of an atrocity? I disagree with the label of atrocity. We know what real atrocities are. We know how to apply the label properly. They committed murder. They targeted the British military offices but they knew innocents would be effected. Even with trying to lower the numbers of innocents, they had to know that there was a high probability of hurting someone who was not part of the British military. It can be argued that targeting the military takes it out of the realm of terrorism but that's the Hamas and Hizballah arguments and we know that it's a false one.
Wait, let me back up there. Any taking of an innocent life is an atrocity. The taking of any life is the destruction of the person and all of his descendants. But if atrocity can be applied to any death then we need a term to cover the wanton taking of multiple lives as is happening in Syria now. We need a term that covers the planned execution of civilians with no regard for anything past death. As for your assertion that its the Israelis are creating the environment, I see that you're disregarding the fact that Israel is still under physical attack by hostile Arabs inside and out, hostile media encouraging the attacks, hostile governments applying double standards to it, and threats to its very existence. But yes, it is Israel's fault for existing. On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 4:44 AM, Eric Roberts <[email protected]> wrote: > > So that makes it less of an atrocity Michael? Seriously? An atrocity is an > atrocity...just because they sent warnings doesn't mitigate the fact that > they committed an atrocity. They were terrorists...period. You are right > though...it is still going on...except now it is is the Israelis creating > the environment to breed terrorists rather than the British. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:26 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: Dr. Ruth was a paramilitary sniper > > > I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. > The Irgun started as a retaliatory organization to instill terror in those > who targeted Jews. The British were not protecting Jews in the area so the > Irgun took an 'eye for an eye' approach. They did not initiate violence till > later in their existence and that violence mainly targeted the British > government that was in control of the area at the time. > > The term atrocity is a totally loaded one and its use is debatable in > reference to the Irgun. The bombing of the King David Hotel (the center of > British government control of the area) was accompanied by multiple warnings > to which were ignored. The truth of Deir Yassin is so convoluted between > scholarship of facts, of politics, of propaganda, and of 'alternate' views > that it can barely be used in any clear conversation. > > I'm not going into the British double standards that helped breed the Irgun. > Too similar to what is still happening. > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Haganah was formed in the 20's after the anti-Jewish riots in Palestine. >> They were primarily defensive, protecting jewish settlements. After >> the war of independence in 1948 they became the IDF. The Irgun was a >> radical splinter group that left the Haganah in the early 30's. They >> fit more within the mold of a terrorist group using assassinations, >> kidnapping and bombings to try and achive independence. During 1944 >> the Haganah with the cooperation of the British went to war with the >> Irgun. BTW there was an Arab batallion in the Haganah. The last group >> the Lehi or Stern Gang was even more radical than the Irgun. Even >> though the 3 groups reached a peace accord in 1945, during the war of >> independence the Irgun and Stern Gang were associated with a number of >> atrocities. The Haganah and Palmach were responsible for bringing the >> perpetrators to the Israeli courts after independence. Monachim Begen, >> a right wing Prime Minister of Israel was one of the leaders of the Irgun. >> >> Michael and Judith may have a different take on the history though. >> >> On Monday, February 27, 2012, Judah McAuley wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm really not familiar with the various groups that operated in the >>> area between the end of WWII and the declaration of statehood in 48. >>> >>> Judah >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Larry C. Lyons >>> <[email protected]<javascript:;>> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a >>> > group >>> that >>> > used terrorism and bombings on civilians, peacekeeepers and other >>> > Jewish defensive groups I find beyond the pale. At least it was not >>> > the Stern >>> Gang. >>> > >>> > On Monday, February 27, 2012, Judah McAuley wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> Dr. Ruth also talks a little about her Orthodox Jewish parents. >>> >> During World War II, Westheimer was sent from Frankfurt to a >>> >> children's home in Switzerland after her father was rounded up by >>> >> the Nazis; both her parents later died in the Holocaust. She was >>> >> an only child. The war ended when she was 16. "I then went to >>> >> Palestine, lived on a kibbutz, which is a collective farm," she >>> >> explains, "and then worked in the underground movement as a >>> >> sniper." (Dr. Ruth was a member of the Zionist paramilitary group >>> >> the Irgun.) "So if you don't ask me good questions today, watch >>> >> out," she teases interviewer Derek Blasberg. "I can still put five > bullets in a little red circle." >>> >> >>> >> From the article: >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://jezebel.com/5888692/exclusive-dr-ruth-is-a-trained-israeli-sni >>> per-who-doesnt-like-to-treat-people-who-are-into-bondage >>> >> >>> >> Huh. Definitely something I did not know about Dr. Ruth. She's a >>> >> fascinating individual and damn smart. I'd love to have a drink >>> >> with her some time. >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> Judah >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:347601 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
