I had to take a course in modern middle east history for my breadth requirement in college. Funny how some things never leave you.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: > > My misunderstanding, then. I should do some more reading on this > particular time/place at some point. > > Cheers, > Judah > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> The King David Hotel was used as a military headquarters and for >> housing military personnel. In a way it was a legit target if the Lehi >> was a legit resistance organization. But the group also had a bombing >> campaign in London that targeted officials involved with the >> independence negotiations and administration of mandate territories. >> >> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel >>> David bombing as I'm not familiar with the other intricacies you guys >>> are talking about, but it was always my understanding that everyone >>> has historically laughed at the post-bombing assertion that there were >>> warning phoned in? I also don't think that it makes any difference, >>> really. If you are blowing up a hotel, you are blowing up a hotel and >>> it doesn't matter if you warned people you were going to do it or not. >>> The hotel, as far as I'm aware, wasn't a military installation. I >>> admit that my knowledge of these events isn't in depth but even I know >>> something of the Hotel David bombing and I'm pretty sure the >>> historical consensus is that it was a flat out terrorist act. >>> >>> Also, Michael, you said that Dr. Ruth was actually part of a different >>> group and that the article I mentioned is incorrect. Do you have a >>> source for that? I'm really curious, I had no idea that Dr. Ruth was a >>> sniper :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Judah >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Michael Dinowitz >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Before I respond to the specific points you made, I'm going to have to >>>> do more research. I do know that it was not some innocent and peaceful >>>> village with no combatants, no history of attacks, and no reason for >>>> being attacked. I especially want to look up that accusation about the >>>> Lehi negotiating with the Nazis. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Deir Yassin - most of the people killed were civilians. According to >>>>> what I read, many were killed execution style. Assassination of 2 >>>>> peace negotiators. The Lehi negotiated with the Nazis and attempted to >>>>> ally with them. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Michael Dinowitz >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. >>>>>> The Irgun started as a retaliatory organization to instill terror in >>>>>> those who targeted Jews. The British were not protecting Jews in the >>>>>> area so the Irgun took an 'eye for an eye' approach. They did not >>>>>> initiate violence till later in their existence and that violence >>>>>> mainly targeted the British government that was in control of the area >>>>>> at the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> The term atrocity is a totally loaded one and its use is debatable in >>>>>> reference to the Irgun. The bombing of the King David Hotel (the >>>>>> center of British government control of the area) was accompanied by >>>>>> multiple warnings to which were ignored. The truth of Deir Yassin is >>>>>> so convoluted between scholarship of facts, of politics, of >>>>>> propaganda, and of 'alternate' views that it can barely be used in any >>>>>> clear conversation. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not going into the British double standards that helped breed the >>>>>> Irgun. Too similar to what is still happening. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Haganah was formed in the 20's after the anti-Jewish riots in Palestine. >>>>>>> They were primarily defensive, protecting jewish settlements. After the >>>>>>> war >>>>>>> of independence in 1948 they became the IDF. The Irgun was a radical >>>>>>> splinter group that left the Haganah in the early 30's. They fit more >>>>>>> within the mold of a terrorist group using assassinations, kidnapping >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> bombings to try and achive independence. During 1944 the Haganah with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> cooperation of the British went to war with the Irgun. BTW there was an >>>>>>> Arab batallion in the Haganah. The last group the Lehi or Stern Gang was >>>>>>> even more radical than the Irgun. Even though the 3 groups reached a >>>>>>> peace >>>>>>> accord in 1945, during the war of independence the Irgun and Stern Gang >>>>>>> were associated with a number of atrocities. The Haganah and Palmach >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> responsible for bringing the perpetrators to the Israeli courts after >>>>>>> independence. Monachim Begen, a right wing Prime Minister of Israel was >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> of the leaders of the Irgun. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael and Judith may have a different take on the history though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, February 27, 2012, Judah McAuley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm really not familiar with the various groups that operated in the >>>>>>>> area between the end of WWII and the declaration of statehood in 48. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Judah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Larry C. Lyons >>>>>>>> <[email protected]<javascript:;>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a >>>>>>>> > group >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> > used terrorism and bombings on civilians, peacekeeepers and other >>>>>>>> > Jewish >>>>>>>> > defensive groups I find beyond the pale. At least it was not the >>>>>>>> > Stern >>>>>>>> Gang. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On Monday, February 27, 2012, Judah McAuley wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Dr. Ruth also talks a little about her Orthodox Jewish parents. >>>>>>>> >> During >>>>>>>> >> World War II, Westheimer was sent from Frankfurt to a children's >>>>>>>> >> home >>>>>>>> >> in Switzerland after her father was rounded up by the Nazis; both >>>>>>>> >> her >>>>>>>> >> parents later died in the Holocaust. She was an only child. The war >>>>>>>> >> ended when she was 16. "I then went to Palestine, lived on a >>>>>>>> >> kibbutz, >>>>>>>> >> which is a collective farm," she explains, "and then worked in the >>>>>>>> >> underground movement as a sniper." (Dr. Ruth was a member of the >>>>>>>> >> Zionist paramilitary group the Irgun.) "So if you don't ask me good >>>>>>>> >> questions today, watch out," she teases interviewer Derek Blasberg. >>>>>>>> >> "I >>>>>>>> >> can still put five bullets in a little red circle." >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> From the article: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://jezebel.com/5888692/exclusive-dr-ruth-is-a-trained-israeli-sniper-who-doesnt-like-to-treat-people-who-are-into-bondage >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Huh. Definitely something I did not know about Dr. Ruth. She's a >>>>>>>> >> fascinating individual and damn smart. I'd love to have a drink with >>>>>>>> >> her some time. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >> Judah >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:347631 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
