do you project much Eric? I'll say it one more time before writing you off as terminally stupid and superficial. I *know* you are taking issue with the Swiss cloud service. My point is that you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. You're saying they can get your stuff anyway if they want it. Yes, but under the status quo it's usually too much trouble unless they have a reason to do that. Geez. At least in theory, European privacy law would apply also, although it's anyone's guess how that would interact with US jurisdiction over .com domains.
The really interesting thing is that "not stored in the US" is becoming a sales point even for people who, as the infamous phrase goes, have nothing to hide. Because we are headed in the direction of routine surveillance where no reason will be needed. And "they can get your stuff anyway" is a bad argument because a) it's not true yet, at least not routinely as a matter of law b) it surrenders on the point of whether it *should* be true -- not unless you're planning mass murder, is my take on this --- and c) since you're making the comment in a thread about privacy it conflates anti-terrorism intelligence and privacy law. Which is exactly what we're saying -- or at least I am saying -- should not be conflated. And you're so sure your unexamined opinion is correct that you keep saying it over and over again. Stop, Eric. Think. Tim and I both talk about the Constitution quite a bit but we normally don't agree this vehemently, do we? Usually he is more about the Second Amendment and I am more about the First. Consider for a minute that this issue may be something you want to think about a little. That will require that you stop emitting platitudes and listen. Yes yes cloud storage raises integrity and security concerns, but normally the tradeoff is worth it anyway. In the normal course of business. The factors may weigh out differently if this passes though, which may mean that EC2 is no longer an option for some startups -- for a start. I'd like to think that a lot of people like Gel will move their stuff, but I suspect that way too many people will say meh, they can get the stuff anyway if they want it. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Eric Roberts <[email protected]> wrote: > > It was in response to the statement of storing in the cloud space in > Switzerland...please read the thread first before commenting and insulting > people Dana. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dana [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:35 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: With CISPA on the horizon, use WUALA for cloud storage > > > Yes. The question is why you said it. > > It has nothing to do with what I said, and if it has nothing to do with > these stupid laws, why did you say it in a thread about these stupid laws, > mmm? I figure it's just your usual fatuous and poorly thought-out rehash of > some irrelevant piece of conventional wisdom. > Next you'll be telling us not to open attachments from people we don't know. > > Since I'm being this rude to you I'll make one attempt to explain this to > you. If some intelligence agency thinks it needs too, it can get pretty much > anything it wants to, this is true. There is a process for doing this. A set > of safeguards which is often overlooked and is not that strong to begin > with, true, but it does exist. The fact that there is such a process does > not make it ok for internet companies to be able to do an end run around it > any time they want. > , > Nobody on on this list is going to have an NSA team investigating them > anytime soon, ok? So to the extent that it a web company might feel a bit > queasy about US intelligence sifting through its customers' data and > consider hosting its information elsewhere, the proposed law does represent > a change in the status quo. You're saying it's already down the toilet so > why bother. Feel free to be that apathetic, but don't complain if other > people find it irritating. > > As for Switzerland, I suspect there are better options, but it would at > least give you European privacy law. On the other hand, that particular > service has a .com domain, which the US has claimed in some cases gives it > jurisdiction. But you don't stop going to the doctor just because some > diseases have no cure, right? Just because the US has the resources to track > terrorists if it can identify them, does not mean we should all shrug off > proposals to let Facebook decide whether individual people need to have > their information shared with the federal government, and let the federal > government do whatever it wants with that information. And maybe if enough > people consider or discuss moving their business elsewhere it will have an > effect. Or not. I still think it's better than shrugging and turning on the > television though. > > > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Eric Roberts > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> No...what I was saying is that it's not safe to save anything on the >> net...whether here or Switzerland or anywhere else. It has nothing to >> do with these stupid laws. I dont know who's ass you pulled that >> assumption out of, but it had nothing to do with what I was saying. >> I think you need to clear your own ears... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dana [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:43 PM >> To: cf-community >> Subject: Re: With CISPA on the horizon, use WUALA for cloud storage >> >> >> Clean out your ears. I'm not saying anything of the kind and I don't >> have the patience tonight to help you catch up. >> >> Yon the other hand seem to be saying that because some people's >> information is obtainable by some process when necessary, it's ok to >> do away with the process for everyone's everything. Sorry if I am not >> ok with that. If it doesn't bother you, then don't let me stop you >> from getting back to tonight's episode of The Bachelor or whatever, shrug. >> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Eric Roberts >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> How is it sticking your head anywhere...if anything, saying that it's >>> ok to put your info somewhere, knowing theta they can get to it >>> anyway is really sticking your head in the sand and pretending that >>> they can't. If you want to put it out there, that is fine, but >>> realize that no what you do, if you are storing it on the internet >>> somewhere, it is not safe from government if they really want to get >>> to it. The only way to keep it secure is to store it somewhere that >>> is not connected >> to the net. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dana [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 7:38 PM >>> To: cf-community >>> Subject: Re: With CISPA on the horizon, use WUALA for cloud storage >>> >>> >>> ya, you're right, let's all stick our head ....::cough:: >>> >>> Sorry, I still say it's an excuse for apathy. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 9:20 PM, Eric Roberts >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> If they want to get to your info...they will...so no...not bullshit. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Dana [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:11 PM >>>> To: cf-community >>>> Subject: Re: With CISPA on the horizon, use WUALA for cloud storage >>>> >>>> >>>> bullshit. That's just an excuse for apathy. Sorry to jump all over >>>> you but I've heard that way too much lately. First of all, the >>>> meaning of safety and security both depend on many factors. It makes >>>> a lot of difference whether we're talking about tracking cookies or >>>> terrorist activity, Anon script kiddies or freaking NSA. >>>> >>>> It's when you talk about cybersecurity as one big fungible mess that >>>> you get stupidity like this bill. Chinese government hackers fall in >>>> the category of cybersecurity, sure. Hollywood has a cybersecurity >>>> problem if their stuff is getting posted on the web, sure, but it's >>>> a different type of cybersecurity problem and some might say a >>>> licensing model problem. Similarly, I think the authors of this bill >>>> see the use of Twitter by Occupy activists as a cybersecurity >>>> problem because it involves the internet and Occupy makes them feel >>>> insecure ;P but I submit that it's not really, until you criminalize >>>> protest, so some might say that it's really a free speech problem ;) >>>> >>>> But if we throw up our hands over theis because Facebook can't seem >>>> to understand that it should abide by its own terms of service -- >>>> which is a cybersecurity problem for you and me imho -- then we may >>>> as well kiss the internet goodbye. Sure, we should all take >>>> precautions anyway. But a web service that *knows* it is being use >>>> to organize an Arab Spring has a responsibility to put some >>>> safeguards in place also, and it's the corporate responsibility part >>>> that is so shockingly lacking >>> in CISPA. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Eric Roberts >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nothing on the net is safe or secure.. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:47 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, looks like they have some anti-piracy group called SAFE that >>>>>> can pull the plug on sites at will, and do all kinds of surveillance. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Eric Roberts < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Didn't the swiss also crack down on stuff like this as well? >>>>>> > Correct me >>>>>> if >>>>>> > i am wrong, bu did't they alos go after Pirate Bay? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Vivec <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Wuala seems to be the most secure online backup solution. It >>>>>> > > stores >>>>>> > NOTHING >>>>>> > > in the United States and goes to great lengths to ensure that >>>>>> > > its staff have no access to any of your files. It's based in >>> Switzerland. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > With CISPA about to pass in the US (we can hope it won't, but >>>>>> > > so far >>>>>> the >>>>>> > > public outrage has been low compared to SOPA and ACTA), this >>>>>> > > is worth a look. We all need to decide how much we value our >>>>>> > > personal/business >>>>>> data, >>>>>> > > and whether we are ok with employees at these companies being >>>>>> > > able to browse what we store. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > http://youtu.be/43EnCOpXD4Q >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:350389 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
