The Greek philosophers like Epicurus etc showed that morality and ethics do not need to be attached to religion or belief.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:27 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > I feel that human nature is more easily fought within this moral structure > we've built and ruled the western world, really all the world, under for a > couple thousand years and every few hundred years we have huge amounts of > chaos as we go through cultural evolut ion > > I find most people are not capable of taking part in this and need the > structures of law enforcement and religion to be dragged along with thought > leaders. > > Religion, its what's for dinner. > On Apr 4, 2013 4:18 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > That makes no sense. How are skepticism or atheism incompatible with > > freedom? If anything its the opposite. I don't see Atheists demanding > that > > every Sunday churches present the Theory of Evolution. But there are a > lot > > of churches that want to do the same for creationism in the classroom. I > > don't see Atheism trying to prevent believers from holding public office, > > > > Have you ever really read up on Secular Humanism? Apparently not. One of > > the most important parts of it is Tolerance. Can you say the same for > your > > religion? > > > > My own opinion is you don t gods, saints, demons, devils or whatever. I > try > > to follow this code, I refuse to give in to the blackmail that most > > Christian churches hold to: > > > > "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will > not > > care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues > > you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not > want > > to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will > have > > lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." > > - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations > > > > And BTW another 2000+ year old set of questions I like > > > > "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. > > > > Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. > > > > Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? > > > > Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" > > > > And: "If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have > > perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another." > > > > - Epicurus (341-270 B.C.E.) > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:42 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think the idea of a creator who made the world in such a shape that > men > > > have dominion over plant and animal and earth, that we are free, and > that > > > we have inalienable rights, is central to our form of government. > > > > > > Atheism/statism/left wing humanist ideals are as incompatible with > these > > > beliefs as the extremes of the right. > > > On Apr 4, 2013 2:20 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Its a matter of if a shoe fits... > > > > > > > > Lets face it someone insisting that Dinosaurs were on Noah's Arc and > > that > > > > the world was created just 6000 years ago, and that before the > > > Crucifixion > > > > the world was flat (how else could the Devil have Christ see the 4 > > > corners > > > > of the world), and then insisting that his particular delusions be > > > codified > > > > into law, is not operating on all cylinders. (damn that's an ugly run > > on > > > > sentence). > > > > > > > > That said I always find this interesting. Whil ereligious sorts claim > > > that > > > > they do not discriminate against unbelievers, they have been able to > > > codify > > > > it in several state constitutions: > > > > > > > > Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1: > > > > No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the > > > civil > > > > departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness > in > > > any > > > > Court. > > > > > > > > Maryland, Article 37: > > > > That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification > for > > > any > > > > office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of > > > belief > > > > in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any > other > > > oath > > > > of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution. > > > > > > > > Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265: > > > > No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any > > > office > > > > in this state. > > > > > > > > North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8 > > > > The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person > who > > > > shall deny the being of Almighty God. > > > > > > > > South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4: > > > > No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any > > > office > > > > under this Constitution. > > > > > > > > Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2: > > > > No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards > and > > > > punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this > > state. > > > > > > > > Texas, Article 1, Section 4: > > > > No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any > > > office, > > > > or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from > > > holding > > > > office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he > acknowledge > > > the > > > > existence of a Supreme Being. > > > > > > > > ----------------- > > > > US Constitution > > > > Article VI. > > > > Clause 3 > > > > "... but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification > to > > > any > > > > Office or public Trust under the United States." > > > > Amendment I > > > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, > or > > > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" > > > > > > > > U.S. law is based on English common law, which was based on Roman > law. > > > Note > > > > that the two concepts in the Constitution that could be called > > > religiously > > > > based are the acceptance of slavery and the treatment of women as > > second > > > > class citizens. > > > > > > > > The Declaration of Independence mentions Nature's God, not the > > Christian > > > > God. It is also not the basis for the U.S. government, the > Constitution > > > is. > > > > > > > > The U.S. is no more a Christian nation than it is a white nation. > > > > > > > > In 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed that federal law prohibits > > > > states from requiring any kind of religious test to serve in office > > when > > > it > > > > ruled in favor of a Maryland atheist seeking appointment as a notary > > > > public. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Jerry Barnes <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "So not only are they religious nut jobs, but they continue to > > support > > > > > anachronistic > > > > > and detrimental laws that were abolished centuries ago lol" > > > > > > > > > > Had to throw the 'nut jobs' in didn't you? It demeans your > > position. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, last time I checked, the 1960's were not centuries ago. > Some > > > of > > > > > these were still on record then. > > > > > > > > > > And to the point of anachronistic and detrimental, why weren't they > > > > deemed > > > > > so when the Constitution was ratified? I can see that argument on > > > > > anachronistic, but what about detrimental? > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad > > > > reputation. > > > > > - Henry Kissinger > > > > > > > > > > Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the > > > tunnel, > > > > > go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:362405 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
