And that's the answer that's been missing. Actually, both of the answers. 1. They are factors but not the whole thing. 2. We don't know it all.
> Of course not, its more like a weighting scheme or predisposition to > something. Each adds to the overall result. Some features, in this > case, biological factors - genes and physiology etc, play a very > deterministic role, but not exclusive role. The thing is that we do > not know all the factors involved, therefore we can only give > probabilistic answers, or educated guesses. > > larry > > >Here's the problem. The way your making it sound below basically > >says we have no > >choice in the matter. If you've got the 'gay gene(s)' then your > >going to be gay > >no matter what. I just can not accept that scientifically. And that's besides > >the 'it's determined early in pregnancy". > >But that's just me. I believe that I am not a machine controlled by my genes. > > > >> All the available evidence suggest that whether you are attracted to > >> the same or the opposite sex is determined very early on during > >> pregnancy. If there is such a strong biological component to being > >> straight or gay, then all the negative results with different > >> conversion therapies fit. From what I remember, the only type of > >> therapy that may have showed some promise was aversion therapy, where > >> the client/victim would be shocked when they saw a picture of a > >> naked man, and the shock was stopped, or the subject not shocked > >> (relief conditioning) when shown a picture of a naked woman. > >> > >> Again no followup and there was no real details about the subjects. I > >> suspect that over the long term the therapy did not work. > >> > >> larry > >> > >> >The story of that is a very interesting one. It basically > >>involved a 'forced' > >> >vote where those against were not allowed into the room. Once the > >> >vote was made, > >> >there was basically no turning back. Lots of controversy... > >> > > >> >> http://www.aap.org/policy/05072.html > >> >> "In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified > >>homosexuality > >as > >> >> a sexual orientation/expression rather than as a mental > >>disorder. [1] The > >> >> etiology of homosexuality remains unclear, but the current > >>literature and > >> >> the vast majority of scholars in this field state that one's sexual > >> >> orientation is not a choice, that is, individuals no more choose to be > >> >> homosexual than heterosexual." > >> >> > >> >> http://www.psych.org/pract_of_psych/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm > >> >> "...the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric > >treatment, > >> >> such as reparative or conversion therapy which is based upon the > >assumption > >> >> that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon > >>the a priori > >> >> assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual homosexual > >> >> orientation." > >> >> > >> >> http://www.psych.org/public_info/homose~1.cfm > >> >> "There are a few reports in the literature of efforts to use > >> >> psychotherapeutic and counseling techniques to treat persons troubled by > >> >> their homosexuality who desire to become heterosexual; however, results > >have > >> >> not been conclusive, nor have they been replicated. There is no evidence > >> >> that any treatment can change a homosexual person's deep seated sexual > >> >> feelings for others of the same sex. " > >> >> > >> > > http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html > > > >> "Is Sexual Orientation a Choice? > > > >> > > > >> No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual > > > >> orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence > >without any prior > >> >> sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on > >>our feelings, > >> >> psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a > >>conscious choice > >> >> that can be voluntarily changed." > >> >> > >> >> http://www.hrc.org/newsreleases/1998/981211apa.asp > >> >> http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/resolution97_comment.html > >> >> http://www.covenantnetwork.org/chgther.html > >> >> > >> >> -Kevin > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:49 PM > >> >> > To: CF-Community > > > >> > Subject: Re: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Actually, it is. No amount of research has shown for a fact that > >> >> > you are forced > >> >> > to be gay or not. There has been some research to show that there > >> >> > are things > >> >> > that may make someone more inclined in that area, but the same > > > >> > can be said for > >> >> > many other behavioral choices. > >> >> > On that same note, there is research to indicate that religion, > >> >> > or the belief in > >> >> > the divine has a biological component as well. As this puts > >> > > > homosexuality on the > >> > > > same biological level as religion, to bash one is to allow > >>the bashing > >of > >> > > > another. Lets add in left handed people as well just for > >>good measure. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Homosexuality is usually not a choice. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > -Kevin > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > > > From: William H. Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:39 AM > >> >> > > > To: CF-Community > >> >> > > > Subject: Re: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > I find it interesting that homosexuality is considered a > >> >> > > > "lifestyle" choice > >> >> > > > whereas religious faith is not. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > <cf_flamesuit condition=on> > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > will > >> >> > > > ---- > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > William H. Bowen > >> >> > > > Webmaster > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > ALSTOM's T&D Energy Automation & Information Business > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > "Your friendly neighborhood Webmaster!" > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> > > > http://www.esca.com/ > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > 425.739.3629 Voice > >> >> > > > 425.466.7016 Cell > >> >> > > > 425.739.3690 FAX > >> >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > > > From: "Matthew Small" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:34 AM > >> >> > > > Subject: RE: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Well, you got your flame :-) > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > First of all, I would say that you need to read the Bible > >> >> > in order to > >> >> > > > > understand it, and then there are things that either humans are > >not > >> >> > > > > meant to understand or their meaning has not been revealed yet. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Second, I respect your right to disbelieve and disagree but > >> >> > not to bash. > >> >> > > > > Just two or three days ago, this list (publicly, at least) > >> >> > was all about > >> >> > > > > protecting the homosexual lifestyle and routing out the bigots. > >My > >> >> > > > > faith is as important to me as anybody else's lifestyle. > >> >> > Saying that > >> >> > > > > war is all due to the Christian Bible is like saying that > >> >> > poverty is due > >> >> > > > > to the blacks, or that all Muslims are looking to bomb your > >> >> > workspace. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > I'm not upset, I just want the respect that every other > >> >> > lifestyle seems > >> >> > > > > to enjoy. It seems like bashing Christians for their faith > >> >> > is ok these > >> >> > > > > days. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Matthew Small > >> >> > > > > IT Supervisor > >> >> > > > > Showstopper National Dance Competitions > >> >> > > > > 3660 Old Kings Hwy > >> >> > > > > Murrells Inlet, SC 29576 > >> >> > > > > 843-357-1847 > >> >> > > > > http://www.showstopperonline.com > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > > > > From: Mark Smyth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:13 AM > >> >> > > > > To: CF-Community > >> >> > > > > Subject: RE: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > i for one agree totally > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > > > > From: cfhelp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >> > > > > Sent: 05 December 2002 16:22 > >> >> > > > > To: CF-Community > >> >> > > > > Subject: RE: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > It's no wonder the world is at war. One chapter say's this > > > >> > and the next > >> >> > > > > contradicts but nobody can get the point. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Well there was a South Park episode that got it right. This book > >was > >> >> > > > > meant > >> >> > > > > as an example not as law and certainly not a prelude for war. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Expecting Flames > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Rick > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > > > > From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:19 AM > >> >> > > > > To: CF-Community > >> >> > > > > Subject: Warning: This may offend if religious > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > http://justdrew.net/Biblical/ > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > This guy basically goes through the bible pointing out > >> >> > inconsistancies > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Some are pretty funny/strange, but damn interesting > >>none the less > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Oh, and the links he points out goto a site that only > >>has the New > >> >> > > > > Testament, not the Old, so quite a few don't work > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Philip Arnold > >> >> > > > > Technical Director > >> >> > > > > Certified ColdFusion Developer > >> > > > > > > ASP Multimedia Limited > >> >> > > > > Switchboard: +44 (0)20 8680 8099 > >> >> > > > > Fax: +44 (0)20 8686 7911 > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > www.aspmedia.co.uk > >> >> > > > > www.aspevents.net > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > An ISO9001 registered company. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > ********************************************************************** > >> >> > > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > >>confidential and > >> >> > > > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom > >they > >> >> > > > > are addressed. If you have received this email in error > >> >> > please notify > >> >> > > > > the system manager. > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > ********************************************************************** > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
