I have never said people shouldn't help each other. I just don't think it should be forced on them. I donate to charities, that I agree with, I help family, when I think I should.
Choice in the matter makes al the difference. Timothy Heald Overseas Security Advisory Council U.S. Department of State "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:40 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands You must _really_ hate Star Trek. The concept of a future where there is no hunger, no poverty, no money, where people just try to help each other. -Kevin > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:30 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > Again with the d word :) > > When I speak of socialists being incompatible with out intended form of > government I don't only mean the revolutionary ideals implied in > marxist/lennonist/maoist socialism. I am speaking about many > ideals shared > by the common American socialist, what we refer to as leftist or > liberal. I > think that when you look at ideas like socialized health care, welfare, > intrusive government policies pertaining to industry and commerce, and > government ownership of large parts of what should be commercial > interests, > you are directly in opposition of what this country was supposed to be > about. > > I am responsible only to myself to that extent that I do not interfere in > others free expression of their rights. I think that statement > pretty much > sums up my political philosophy. Obviously there are areas where that > explanations is insufficient. I have chosen to take a wife and have > children, so I have a responsibility there, but it was a choice. > I decided > that I WANTED to serve, and as such I have military obligations. > In both of > these cases I opted to pursue that course. I don't think it's > right that I > ever be responsible for another person or for any responsibility that I do > not decide to take upon myself. > > I think this shows in so many different aspects of politics. We are > required to pay for other people to live, eat, and be educated. > It's almost > a right in this nation to have medical care and housing and > belongings, even > if you do not choose to work, to produce, to pay for the services you > receive. > > Maybe I am slow because it's Friday. I don't feel like I am expressing my > point very well. > > I think in economics, and in politics I believe in a Darwinian model. I > think a person will naturally rise to the level of their ability. However > if you make it easy for people to be lazy many will do just that. > They will > milk the system. Eventually you taint the system so that these with the > ability are no longer willing to produce for those without. They > go to the > black market, or work simply at a sustenance level, or worse they > will cave > and take advantage of the system. > > Anyway back to my grind :) > > Timothy Heald > Overseas Security Advisory Council > U.S. Department of State > > "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be > sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:02 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > While I've no real experience in political science, I think you're missing > something here Tim. There are actually two types of socialism, one as you > said is based on Marxist philosophy. The other type is based on > classic 19th > century Fabian Socialism, whose modern descendents are the British Labour > Party, as well as similar political parties in Europe, Australia > and Canada > for instance. This system is based on classic parliamentary approaches to > change, not revolutionary. There is nothing incompatible with that sort of > socialism and the democratic process. > > larry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:03 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > Socialism, based on Marx, advocates revolution and violence. It's > > principals are mutually exclusive. The republic envisioned in our > > constitution and bill of rights, in the constitutions and > > charters of many > > state, is incompatible with many of it's guiding ideals. I > > am not agreeing > > that we should deport socialists, just realize that their > > world view does > > not and should not matter in our political process, should we > > wish to stay > > true to the intent, the spirit of liberty that this country manifests. > > > > The sovereign individual, not the community or the society, > > is the highest > > member of our republic. Self interest over group interest. > > > > I also realize that we are no longer that republic. That for > > the most part > > we are all ready living in a socialist country/. > > > > Also I think I may know what he means when he speaks of socialist > > protestors. There are many groups at the forefront of the > > anti-war movement > > in the U.S. One of the largest and most vocal is a group > > called ANSWER. > > They have been very popular here in DC lately. The only > > thing is that most > > people don't know they are run by the world workers party. The world > > workers party is one of the communist parties in the US. > > This group goes > > around saying that they are run of the mill average people > > standing up and > > speaking out against war. In reality their world view is > > very different > > than your average American's. They are also not against all > > war. They look > > to North Korea and Cuba as havens of brotherly love. They support > > terrorists (this is a act, one of the guys that they had speak was a > > Palestinian who had been in and out of prison in Israel). > > They are not the > > peace loving gentle people you would assume. > > > > Timothy Heald > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > U.S. Department of State > > > > "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be > > sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:51 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: samcfug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:39 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > > > > Interesting that all of these so-called anti-war cowards > > > universally leave out and ignore the murders of innocent > > > civilians by the thousands by this despot. This continues > > > even today. We treat their POWs humanely, and they have > > > murdered (executed) all but one of the POWs they took. There > > > are no arguments that can be considered valid that try to > > > place blame on the US. It is fact that the French, Germans, > > > and Russians oppose up but it is all economic in nature. I > > > hope our congress remembers this when passing foreign aid > > > legislation. Of course we will reimburse ourselves with > > > revenues from Iraqi Oil. We should also export all these > > > socialist protesters as well. > > > > You comments honestly offend me as an American. "export all these > > socialist protesters"? So we should slap the ideals of this > > country in > > the face by renouncing the fundamental freedom to disagree with our > > government's actions? In fact punishing those that do? > > > > Who else would be "exported" (nice, sanitized word there by the way)? > > What other group's expressions of free speech annoy you? > > > > Being anti-war has never been synonymous with "coward". I see a great > > bravery in those willing to express their disatisfaction > > against public > > opinion. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not I feel proud > > when I see protesters. Proud that this country protects that > > right and > > pround that my fellow Americans are still strong enough to > > exercise it. > > > > Jim Davis > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Your ad could be here. 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