I reluctantly agree.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I have never said people shouldn't help each other. I just don't think it > should be forced on them. I donate to charities, that I agree with, I help > family, when I think I should. > > Choice in the matter makes al the difference. > > Timothy Heald > Overseas Security Advisory Council > U.S. Department of State > > "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be > sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:40 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > You must _really_ hate Star Trek. The concept of a future where there is no > hunger, no poverty, no money, where people just try to help each other. > > -Kevin > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:30 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > Again with the d word :) > > > > When I speak of socialists being incompatible with out intended form of > > government I don't only mean the revolutionary ideals implied in > > marxist/lennonist/maoist socialism. I am speaking about many > > ideals shared > > by the common American socialist, what we refer to as leftist or > > liberal. I > > think that when you look at ideas like socialized health care, welfare, > > intrusive government policies pertaining to industry and commerce, and > > government ownership of large parts of what should be commercial > > interests, > > you are directly in opposition of what this country was supposed to be > > about. > > > > I am responsible only to myself to that extent that I do not interfere in > > others free expression of their rights. I think that statement > > pretty much > > sums up my political philosophy. Obviously there are areas where that > > explanations is insufficient. I have chosen to take a wife and have > > children, so I have a responsibility there, but it was a choice. > > I decided > > that I WANTED to serve, and as such I have military obligations. > > In both of > > these cases I opted to pursue that course. I don't think it's > > right that I > > ever be responsible for another person or for any responsibility that I do > > not decide to take upon myself. > > > > I think this shows in so many different aspects of politics. We are > > required to pay for other people to live, eat, and be educated. > > It's almost > > a right in this nation to have medical care and housing and > > belongings, even > > if you do not choose to work, to produce, to pay for the services you > > receive. > > > > Maybe I am slow because it's Friday. I don't feel like I am expressing my > > point very well. > > > > I think in economics, and in politics I believe in a Darwinian model. I > > think a person will naturally rise to the level of their ability. However > > if you make it easy for people to be lazy many will do just that. > > They will > > milk the system. Eventually you taint the system so that these with the > > ability are no longer willing to produce for those without. They > > go to the > > black market, or work simply at a sustenance level, or worse they > > will cave > > and take advantage of the system. > > > > Anyway back to my grind :) > > > > Timothy Heald > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > U.S. Department of State > > > > "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be > > sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:02 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > While I've no real experience in political science, I think you're missing > > something here Tim. There are actually two types of socialism, one as you > > said is based on Marxist philosophy. The other type is based on > > classic 19th > > century Fabian Socialism, whose modern descendents are the British Labour > > Party, as well as similar political parties in Europe, Australia > > and Canada > > for instance. This system is based on classic parliamentary approaches to > > change, not revolutionary. There is nothing incompatible with that sort of > > socialism and the democratic process. > > > > larry > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:03 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > > > > Socialism, based on Marx, advocates revolution and violence. It's > > > principals are mutually exclusive. The republic envisioned in our > > > constitution and bill of rights, in the constitutions and > > > charters of many > > > state, is incompatible with many of it's guiding ideals. I > > > am not agreeing > > > that we should deport socialists, just realize that their > > > world view does > > > not and should not matter in our political process, should we > > > wish to stay > > > true to the intent, the spirit of liberty that this country manifests. > > > > > > The sovereign individual, not the community or the society, > > > is the highest > > > member of our republic. Self interest over group interest. > > > > > > I also realize that we are no longer that republic. That for > > > the most part > > > we are all ready living in a socialist country/. > > > > > > Also I think I may know what he means when he speaks of socialist > > > protestors. There are many groups at the forefront of the > > > anti-war movement > > > in the U.S. One of the largest and most vocal is a group > > > called ANSWER. > > > They have been very popular here in DC lately. The only > > > thing is that most > > > people don't know they are run by the world workers party. The world > > > workers party is one of the communist parties in the US. > > > This group goes > > > around saying that they are run of the mill average people > > > standing up and > > > speaking out against war. In reality their world view is > > > very different > > > than your average American's. They are also not against all > > > war. They look > > > to North Korea and Cuba as havens of brotherly love. They support > > > terrorists (this is a act, one of the guys that they had speak was a > > > Palestinian who had been in and out of prison in Israel). > > > They are not the > > > peace loving gentle people you would assume. > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > > U.S. Department of State > > > > > > "that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be > > > sacredly maintained" - George Washington, Farewell Address 1796 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:51 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: samcfug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:39 AM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: Liberate Iraq -- Even With Unclean Hands > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting that all of these so-called anti-war cowards > > > > universally leave out and ignore the murders of innocent > > > > civilians by the thousands by this despot. This continues > > > > even today. We treat their POWs humanely, and they have > > > > murdered (executed) all but one of the POWs they took. There > > > > are no arguments that can be considered valid that try to > > > > place blame on the US. It is fact that the French, Germans, > > > > and Russians oppose up but it is all economic in nature. I > > > > hope our congress remembers this when passing foreign aid > > > > legislation. Of course we will reimburse ourselves with > > > > revenues from Iraqi Oil. We should also export all these > > > > socialist protesters as well. > > > > > > You comments honestly offend me as an American. "export all these > > > socialist protesters"? So we should slap the ideals of this > > > country in > > > the face by renouncing the fundamental freedom to disagree with our > > > government's actions? In fact punishing those that do? > > > > > > Who else would be "exported" (nice, sanitized word there by the way)? > > > What other group's expressions of free speech annoy you? > > > > > > Being anti-war has never been synonymous with "coward". I see a great > > > bravery in those willing to express their disatisfaction > > > against public > > > opinion. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not I feel proud > > > when I see protesters. Proud that this country protects that > > > right and > > > pround that my fellow Americans are still strong enough to > > > exercise it. > > > > > > Jim Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Your ad could be here. 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