personally, I was just quibbling about the use of the word Catholic. In my view this should have been Christian. Of course, I wasn't aware of those last couple of crusades either. I will take a look at these links a little later; they look interesting and I am an amateur medievalist. I love Ellis Peters and this is no doubt why on hearing crusades I think eleventh century <g>
Dana On Wed, 28 May 2003 12:40:15 -0700, William Bowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > zoinks!! > > Guess I'm not going to get any work done today after all... > > It seems that you have taken my remarks as anti-Catholic. Okay, I can see > how that interpretation could be made. It was not how they were intended. > > Now consider this if you will: The Latin Church > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09022a.htm) (western Europe, the > Americas, > etc. -- and not to be confused or lumped in with the Eastern/Byzantine > churches) traces its lineage to the Second Council of Nicaea > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11045a.htm) in 787, the Catholic Church > as > an entity pre-dates the first Crusade. > > Do I believe that the Church of today is responsible for the > Crusades?(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm) No I do not, it is > as > you have said, largely a different entity. Be that as it may, the Church > has > roots going back many hundreds of years, many dark times and quite a few > bright spots too. > > The original question that was asked was: > >> So, when do you think we'll be able to call this the 5th Crusade :) > > my answer was: > >> er... when GW lays down his fundamentalist protestant beliefs, has >> himself >> baptised Catholic and then elected Pope. > >> IIRC the Crusades were about Catholics taking on Islam. > > Which, given historical data, is true, no? Arguably I did leave out the > 15th > and 16th century crusades and for that I apologize, but by and large the > popes over a period of several hundred years were responsible for them. > > "These Holy Wars were essentially a papal enterprise." > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm) > > will > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haggerty, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:08 AM > Subject: RE: Operation Iraqi Eradication > > >> William - >> >> BS read what you wrote. >> >> And if you are in the church, it's just to light the candles with all >> your >> flames. >> >> M >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: William Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:41 PM >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: Re: Operation Iraqi Eradication >> >> > The church of the middle ages in NO WAY represents the modern church >> >> Didn't say that it did... >> >> > mass was conducted in latin and sometimes greek >> >> Mass was conducted in Latin (officially) in the Catholic church until > ~1965, >> the Second Vatican Council (aka Vatican II) under Pope John XXIII -- >> http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/ >> officially >> put an end to that practice. >> >> <snip url http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/news/nw1222kne.html> >> The Second Vatican Council, held from from 1962 to 1965, aimed to create >> a >> spiritual renewal of the church. Liturgical reforms, such as ending the >> requirement that priests speak in Latin while leading worship, >> encouraged >> the participation of lay Catholics in church services. </snip> >> >> > Stop talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, it's >> > ignorant and offensive and doesn't reflect well on you. >> >> Really...I've been Catholic for 34 years (since about two weeks after I > was >> born), so thanks very much for the suggestion. Guess I'll take it under >> advisement... >> >> or not... >> :) >> >> will >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Haggerty, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:18 AM >> Subject: RE: Operation Iraqi Eradication >> >> >> > The church of the middle ages in NO WAY represents the modern church. >> > The mass was conducted in latin and sometimes greek, the 'teachings' >> > were not unifed between the Jesuits and other sects within the church, >> > the leaders >> of >> > the church occupied positions of political power more in keeping with >> > a >> head >> > of state than what the current Catholic church represents. Just as >> > times change, so does the role of the church in secular life. >> > >> > Stop talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, it's >> > ignorant and offensive and doesn't reflect well on you. >> > >> > M >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: William Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:02 PM >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: Re: Operation Iraqi Eradication >> > >> > >> > right. >> > >> > and though they might have been called "christians" at the time; the >> > teachings, worship services, etc. were what are today known as >> > "Catholic" >> > >> > will >> > >> > >> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
