here it is: http://historymedren.about.com/library/weekly/aa033000a.htm
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:01 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Operation Iraqi Eradication > > > personally, I was just quibbling about the use of the word > Catholic. In my > view this should have been Christian. Of course, I wasn't > aware of those > last couple of crusades either. I will take a look at these > links a little > later; they look interesting and I am an amateur medievalist. > I love Ellis > Peters and this is no doubt why on hearing crusades I think eleventh > century <g> > > Dana > > On Wed, 28 May 2003 12:40:15 -0700, William Bowen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > zoinks!! > > > > Guess I'm not going to get any work done today after all... > > > > It seems that you have taken my remarks as anti-Catholic. > Okay, I can > > see how that interpretation could be made. It was not how they were > > intended. > > > > Now consider this if you will: The Latin Church > > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09022a.htm) (western Europe, the > > Americas, > > etc. -- and not to be confused or lumped in with the > Eastern/Byzantine > > churches) traces its lineage to the Second Council of Nicaea > > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11045a.htm) in 787, the > Catholic Church > > as > > an entity pre-dates the first Crusade. > > > > Do I believe that the Church of today is responsible for the > > Crusades?(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm) No I > do not, it > > is > > as > > you have said, largely a different entity. Be that as it > may, the Church > > has > > roots going back many hundreds of years, many dark times > and quite a few > > bright spots too. > > > > The original question that was asked was: > > > >> So, when do you think we'll be able to call this the 5th Crusade :) > > > > my answer was: > > > >> er... when GW lays down his fundamentalist protestant beliefs, has > >> himself > >> baptised Catholic and then elected Pope. > > > >> IIRC the Crusades were about Catholics taking on Islam. > > > > Which, given historical data, is true, no? Arguably I did leave out > > the > > 15th > > and 16th century crusades and for that I apologize, but by > and large the > > popes over a period of several hundred years were > responsible for them. > > > > "These Holy Wars were essentially a papal enterprise." > > (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm) > > > > will > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Haggerty, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:08 AM > > Subject: RE: Operation Iraqi Eradication > > > > > >> William - > >> > >> BS read what you wrote. > >> > >> And if you are in the church, it's just to light the > candles with all > >> your > >> flames. > >> > >> M > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: William Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:41 PM > >> To: CF-Community > >> Subject: Re: Operation Iraqi Eradication > >> > >> > The church of the middle ages in NO WAY represents the modern > >> > church > >> > >> Didn't say that it did... > >> > >> > mass was conducted in latin and sometimes greek > >> > >> Mass was conducted in Latin (officially) in the Catholic > church until > > ~1965, > >> the Second Vatican Council (aka Vatican II) under Pope > John XXIII -- > >> http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/ > >> officially > >> put an end to that practice. > >> > >> <snip url > >> http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/news/nw1222kne.html> > >> The Second Vatican Council, held from from 1962 to 1965, > aimed to create > >> a > >> spiritual renewal of the church. Liturgical reforms, such > as ending the > >> requirement that priests speak in Latin while leading worship, > >> encouraged > >> the participation of lay Catholics in church services. </snip> > >> > >> > Stop talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, > >> > it's ignorant and offensive and doesn't reflect well on you. > >> > >> Really...I've been Catholic for 34 years (since about two > weeks after > >> I > > was > >> born), so thanks very much for the suggestion. Guess I'll take it > >> under advisement... > >> > >> or not... > >> :) > >> > >> will > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Haggerty, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:18 AM > >> Subject: RE: Operation Iraqi Eradication > >> > >> > >> > The church of the middle ages in NO WAY represents the modern > >> > church. The mass was conducted in latin and sometimes greek, the > >> > 'teachings' were not unifed between the Jesuits and other sects > >> > within the church, the leaders > >> of > >> > the church occupied positions of political power more in keeping > >> > with a > >> head > >> > of state than what the current Catholic church > represents. Just as > >> > times change, so does the role of the church in secular life. > >> > > >> > Stop talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, > >> > it's ignorant and offensive and doesn't reflect well on you. > >> > > >> > M > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: William Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:02 PM > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: Re: Operation Iraqi Eradication > >> > > >> > > >> > right. > >> > > >> > and though they might have been called "christians" at the time; > >> > the teachings, worship services, etc. were what are > today known as > >> > "Catholic" > >> > > >> > will > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Host with the leader in ColdFusion hosting. 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