I have to disagree. I don't see how creating...say a human, from a bunch of random atoms in a closed system will increase chaos. Even if all of the atoms that make up that human eventually disperse again after he dies, it would seem like a wash as far as net difference in order/chaos. If the human created something...there would be a net gain in order, until whatever he created dispersed. Still a wash, but as long as the human exists, there is a _gain_ in order, at least from the human pov, not a loss. Of course...any permanent net gain or loss violates the laws of thermodynamics.
Unless you think that us and our creations are based on chaos...I don't see any way around the fact that creation is an orderly act. This is totally beside whatever it's overall effects are on the system. This would still hold true in any system with strict rules...or order. I do agree with your second part, but the issue is whether the act of creation by a God is an orderly act or not, and whether or not the world around us can have the scientific method applied to it, whether it be based on evolution or a supernatural being. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Thursday, June 26, 2003, 7:32:57 AM, you wrote: BD> No. The act of creation was a chaotic one -- it increased entropy in the BD> system. BD> But keep in mind that stochastic systems tend to have very strict rules. BD> It's just that they are based on the likelyhood of the event, not just "it BD> happens or not". So I'm not saying there's no order, it's just that order BD> and chaos are mixed and inseparable. Like the biggest possible fractal. BD> -- Ben Doom BD> Programmer & General Lackey BD> Moonbow Software, Inc BD> : -----Original Message----- BD> : From: jon hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] BD> : Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:15 PM BD> : To: CF-Community BD> : Subject: Re: In a nutshell BD> : BD> : BD> : Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 7:00:40 PM, you wrote: : BD>> : In my tradition and belief, there is a structure to creation. No : BD>> : dice rolls, : BD>> : just a beginning, end and a plan to move from one point to : BD>> : another. Soem fudging : BD>> : may be needed to help move things along, but thats not random. : BD>> : Science as a study of creation is exactly how I feel. BD> : Physical creation. : BD>> : Creation with set laws of cause and effect. BD> : : BD>> Personally, I think God /does/ roll dice. I think the BD> : Universe is one big : BD>> stochastic system. But that's just me. BD> : : BD>> --BenD BD> : BD> : The act of creation implies order does it not? BD> : BD> : BD> : btw...i really love this thread. got my brain chugging for sure. BD> : Thanks John...whether or not I totally disagree with you ;-) BD> : -- BD> : jon BD> : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] BD> : BD> : BD> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
