Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 5:15:42 PM, you wrote: JvD> jon hall wrote: >>Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 3:40:56 PM, you wrote: >>> Isn't the belief in the Big Bang, Evolution Theory and the Law of >>> Relativity (just to mention a few) the ultimate proof of this? What is >>> this thing we call science? Is it really 'Science', or merely the result >>> of the application of Ockham's Razor to the universe as we know it? Just >>> like deity X was the result of application of Ockham's Razor four >>> thousand years ago? >>> >>> I think 'science' is just the latest religion. But instead of saying 'if >>> you help the poor, you go to heaven' it says 'e = m*c^2'. >> >>This is absolutely insane... >> >>Find me a religion who's beliefs will stand up to the scientific method >>and I will become a convert. If you don't believe in the scientific >>method...there is no point in discussing this further as we can't talk >>on the same level.
JvD> Find me a science who's theorems stand up to the religious method..... Codify the religious method first. JvD> Certain religions refused to accept scientific proof that the earth revolves JvD> around the sun, because that proof was not based upon the same fundamentals JvD> as the religion was. They are fundamentally incompatible, you can not prove JvD> one using the methods of the other. No they are not fundamentally incompatible. I said it previously...science could be just the study of God's actions. A religious belief can have the scientific method applied to it. >>I will say, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, I do believe in logic, or >>said another way, I believe in my own thought processes. JvD> Cogito ergo sum. A much more eloquent way of putting it. >>If you can't believe in your own thought processes, how can you even form a >>reliable opinion about the scientific method? JvD> What are our thought processes if we assume that science is correct? Merely JvD> hemical reactions taking place. How much of it is instinct? How much is free JvD> will? What is free will according to the scientific method? The chemical JvD> reactions which are the basis of our thinking (according to the scientific JvD> method) follow the laws of thermodynamics (according to the scientific JvD> method). So how can free will even exist (according to the scientific JvD> method)? And if free will can't exist (according to the scientific method), JvD> how can I form a reliable opinion about it? Traditional religion has concluded that people do have a free will, science has not. It's not a law, but a theory since it's as yet unprovable...I think it will be provable one day though as our knowledge of the brain expands. We are having this conversation though, and cogito ergo sum still applies. You can't duck out of having an opinion because you really might not have an opinion at all...that's a total cop out. JvD> I believe the scientific method is a religion. It is the one I like most of JvD> all because it is quite predictable, it imposes no moral theorems which I JvD> believe to be arbitrary, but I do think it is a religion just like any other JvD> religion. JvD> Where it differs from the religions most people think of when you mention JvD> religion, is that it has a built-in method to adapt itself. It is the JvD> scientific method itself that says a model is just a model, and if there are JvD> experiments to show the model is flawed, we just need to built a better JvD> model. (Which in turn is quite like the religion from the Romans, who just JvD> added a few extra deities to their religion whenever they conquered a people JvD> that had new deities.) Science is not characterized by belief in a supernatural power, and you are really stretching the definition of a religion to the point at which anything that people dedicates themselves to is a religion. Like coding, or playing Quake. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
