Well noted, I should like to look into that myself. However, confusion about the subject at hand does not negate its truthfulness.
>From a scientific (non-Christian) point of view, we don't know where the universe came from, but it's still there, correct? Matthew Small ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > There is quite a lot in your note, some of it I'll address, some I'd rather > not due to time restrictions, and I don't want to do the research that > would adequately address them at this point. And frankly at this time I > don't have access to the research materials I'd need to reeasonably address > them. > > You do agree that we are all made in God's image, correct? If so, then if > something is physiologically based, either due to prenatal environment (in > the womb), genetic or hormonal influences, then that also is an aspect of > God, and a part of us being made in God's image. Correct? > > Assuming that you agree with me so far, given the above propositions, then > how can homosexuality, which is physiologically based, be considered a sin, > especially since it is an aspect of God's image. > > Another point, taking your point about Christ ruling that the Law of Moses > has been superceded, and that from what I remember of my own bible > readings, all but one of the prohibitions on homosexuality are in the Old > Testament, then what does that do to the prohibitions on homosexuality? > > As another point, if sheer volume of prohibitions is an important point, > bans on necromancy/witchcraft and poisoners, food restrictions, dress > restrictions and associational restrictions are far more prominent in both > the old and new testaments than prohibitions on homosexuality. Given that > emphasis, shouldn't we give more attention to the other restrictions first? > > Just some thoughts. > > larry > > At 10:15 AM 8/6/2003 -0400, Matthew Small wrote: > >Actually, you need to read and study the Bible to understand which parts of > >it to follow. I'm not a Bible scholar, but I do go to Bible studies and > >read the Word to know what it is trying to say to me. That's a major point > >of the religion that non-Christians don't seem to understand - you think > >it's like a set of laws, when in reality it's a mostly set of guidelines for > >following your life, along with some laws, and the Lord guides each of us in > >his own way. Which are which? That's up to people more learned than me to > >figure out. > > > >But back to the real point - when Jesus the Messiah came, he ruled that the > >Law of Moses was in the past, and that His law - the doctrines of > >forgiveness, acceptance, and love - are the new law. There are definitely > >some prohibitions as to some things to do and not do - I don't know what > >they are offhand, as I don't know the Levitical laws - but it's not about > >picking and choosing what you want to do or not do according to the Bible. > > > >How does this affect the choosing of the homosexual Bishop? Let me try to > >explain as best as I understand the Bible and it's teachings (like I said, > >I'm no Bible scholar, but I try). To start with, there is a standard for > >people who spread the Word - they must hold themselves to a much higher > >standard than the people that they minister to, not meaning that they are > >without sin, but that they walk the straight and narrow line as closely as > >possible. Next, there are prohibitions against having sexual relations with > >any person outside the bounds of matrimony. The fact alone that the > >Bishop-elect lives with a sexual partner (male or female) outside of > >marriage should be enough to exclude him from being a priest in the first > >place. Thirdly, homosexuality is a sin in and of itself in the eyes of God, > >and whether anybody else agrees with Him is irrevelant, it's His decision > >alone to make, and that's that. Openly promoting and living a sinful life, > >whatever the sin, whether it being sexual relations with a man or woman, or > >spreading hurtful gossip, or giving the finger to a driver who cuts you off > >in traffic, is not a trait that men of the Cloth should have. Again, this is > >not to say that these men are perfect, but rather held to a higher standard, > >I would say much like a job promotion - you are better at your job than your > >peers who did not get promoted, therefore are deserving of more > >responsibility and respect because you embody the creed. > > > >One very important point to be made is in all of this, the law of > >forgiveness and acceptance is still upheld. Jesus loves every person on > >Earth, and wants them to follow His ways. He forgives everybody of all of > >their sins, although he hates the sin, and loves the sinner. There is no > >prohibition against this man being a Christian, just against being a priest > >or bishop or whatever. God loves us all. > > > >Anyway, that's my take. > >Matthew Small > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 4:37 PM > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > So in that case its ok to pick and choose which parts of the bible to > >follow. > > > > > > larry > > > > > > At 04:39 PM 8/5/2003 -0400, Matthew Small wrote: > > > >Actually, Christians aren't supposed to follow Levitical law, but rather > >the > > > >law of acceptance and forgiveness as told by Jesus Christ. > > > > > > > >Matthew Small > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 4:30 PM > > > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's for sure. Haven't been to a good stoning in years. And how many > > > > > Christian men follow the prescriptions in Leviticus and Exodus. > > > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > At 03:09 PM 8/5/2003 -0500, Deanna Schneider wrote: > > > > > >I think the rub lies in the fact that the bible says a lot of things > >that > > > >no > > > > > >one follows. I read a really good article about it once, which I, of > > > > > >course, > > > > > >can't find now. But, it basically went through all the things that > >people > > > > > >couldn't do, or would have to do, if the bible was followed verbatim. > >The > > > > > >point was that the bible was written a long time ago and parts of it > >are > > > > > >accepted as no longer relevant. So, who's to say that the edicts > >against > > > > > >homosexuality are any more relevant than these other things deemed > > > > > >irrelevant now. > > > > > > > > > > > >-d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:36 PM > > > > > >Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I said catholic where? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they want to say yes more power. I guess they haven't read the > > > >bible, > > > > > > > but so be it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW I am a recently converted atheist, after being one of those > >flaky > > > >feel > > > > > > > good pagan types. I don't want it to be misunderstood. I do not > > > >believe > > > > > > > what the book says, but if you claim it........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > > > > Information Systems Specialist > > > > > > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > > > > > > U.S. Department of State > > > > > > > 571.345.2235 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 3:32 PM > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this particular case, it's the Episcopalian Church that was > >about > > > >to > > > > > > > explicitly say "yes" to a gay bishop. Different Church than if he > >was > > > > > > > Catholic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait. I have no problem with anyone based on sexual > > > > > > > > preference, however, how can one claim to be a "Christian" > > > > > > > > after the bible says sodomy is a no go, and god killed a > > > > > > > > bunch of those that practiced it? Not to mention is the > > > > > > > > church free to make whatever bylaws it wants? Shouldn't they > > > > > > > > be able to say no gay ministers? I mean the military still > > > > > > > > does and that's a government institution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > > > > > Information Systems Specialist > > > > > > > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > > > > > > > U.S. Department of State > > > > > > > > 571.345.2235 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:40 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that what's happening now, i.e., Laramie Wyoming and > > > > > > > > the most recent > > > > > > > > election fiasco with the Episcopalian Church. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:33 PM 8/5/2003 -0500, Doug White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If we decriminalized these so-called crimes what would be > > > > > > > > left for the > > > > > > > > >right-wing to do? Gang up on the homos? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
