promote individual liberties. They promote a very "socialized" way of life.
-d
----- Original Message -----
From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
> A free grouping of people? This would bother a libertarian why?
>
> I admit that most modern unions have hurt not helped. There was a time
when
> they did very important work. Again remember this is free association,
not
> legislated action, and could be used to forestall some of the possible
> actions the government is consider taking to regulate it, specifically how
> it relates to security.
>
> Self regulation is always preferable to gov't regulation.
>
> Timothy Heald
> Information Systems Manager
> Overseas Security Advisory Council
> U.S. Department of State
> 571.345.2319
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:51 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
>
>
> And a libertarian would be interested in a union? Um, why?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:30 AM
> Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
>
>
> > A friend and I actually started talking about the idea of a union. You
> get
> > skill ratings by time in service, testing, and peer review.
Additionally
> > that would allow for a much more stable salary range I think. The down
is
> > that companies historically don't like unions, and would probably resist
> > hiring union programmers.
> >
> > Timothy Heald
> > Information Systems Manager
> > Overseas Security Advisory Council
> > U.S. Department of State
> > 571.345.2319
> >
> > The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> > Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> > opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
> is
> > unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:01 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
> >
> >
> > You're asking implementation. Think bigger picture: Can we protect IT
> jobs
> > in North America by having professional designations in the industry?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: October 1, 2003 7:50 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> >
> >
> > > You're overblowing it. Other professions have designations (and trust
> me,
> > a
> > > CPA desig is not "mythical", no matter how you view it).
> >
> > Alright, maybe I did engage in a little hyperbole, and you're right that
> > other professions have designations. So how do you see a designation
> > working? I have some questions:
> >
> > 1. How will the designations be determined? Who decides?
> > 2. How will people be evaluated? Will it involve going to an official
> office
> > or will it be a process that anyone authorized can administer?
> > 3. Will there be a fee to get evaluated?
> > 4. Who will perform the evaluations? Not just what organization, or what
> > process, but how many people will be involved in evaluating all the
> current
> > and potential IT workers? How will they be funded?
> > 5. If it's process where anyone authorized can administer the
evaluation,
> > how does that authorization process happen?
> > 6. Will all current IT workers be grandfathered in, or will they need to
> be
> > evaluated?
> > 7. If they are grandfathered in, how is there designation determined for
> > further job changes?
> > 8. If they need to be evaluated, what is the timeframe involved and what
> is
> > the incentive to employers to have their current, capable employees
> > evaluated if there is a chance the employees will not achieve the
> > appropriate designation for their current job?
> > 9. How do people contest their designation? Is there going to be a
process
> > for that? Who oversees that process to ensure that favoritism doesn't
> > happen? How will those people be compensated for their time?
> > 10. How do employers verify that potential applicants have been
> designated?
> > 11. How will people who are self-taught know that they need to get a
> > designation? If it requires an ongoing awareness and promotion campaign,
> how
> > much will that cost and how will it be funded?
> > 12. How will you ensure that people actually need the designation? Will
> > employers only be allowed to hire people with a designation? If no, then
> > will equally capable non-designated people have a legal recourse to
> contest
> > discrimination against them in the hiring process? If yes, how do you
> > propose to make it a requirement?
> > 13. Once people have a designation, what happens as they continue to
> develop
> > professionally? Will the designation change to reflect that, and what is
> > involved to make the designation change?
> > 14. If an employee has a designation, but an employer still doesn't feel
> > they can actually do the job, what happens? Can the employee appeal to
any
> > designating authority to determine whether the employer properly set the
> > expectations for a job function with a given designation? Are there any
> > protections for the worker at all after going through the process of
> > achieving a designation or is it only the employer who benefits during
the
> > hiring process?
> > 15. Can a person's designation be revoked for any reason?
> > 16. How much will designations cost the industry? Will candidates have
to
> > pay for testing? If so, how much?
> > 17. Will designees have to pay ongoing dues? If so, how much?
> > 18. Will employers have to pay to an industry oversight organization to
> fund
> > any of the designation process? If so, how much?
> >
> > Yes, other professions do have designations. They also have
bureaucracies
> to
> > manage them. I'm just wondering how much of a bureaucracy and the
> associated
> > costs you envision for your idea. Overall will it cost the industry more
> or
> > less than occasionally hiring and then firing a person with a puffed up
> > resume? I honestly don't pretend to know the answer to that. I'm asking.
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > [ Todays Threads
>
> _____
>
> [ Todays Threads
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