I've busted my ass a couple of years ago writing a CMS for a few govt depts for a company called Urban Media. We spent more time making the UI then we did the architecture behind it, it was pretty sexy in regards to feedback and what not (i dazzled the monkeys with progress bars, funky dhtml/flash combinations etc - those who saw it can confirm/deny its ease of use aswell).
Despite it being very simple to use it wasn't as mature (enterprise level) as Shado or FarCry, but it allowed them to run sites via a simple approach (pretty much contribute kinda simple with dynamics) (ie no DMS or high-tech backup stuff etc).
Having said that, it still wasn't enough. The UI was still not clear enough for monkeys who can't even install Office let alone run a website? and in truth applications like DreamWeaver (which is very simple for most) is a failure in that regard as well (just look at all the self-help books around).
Point is, you can only automate a solution so far before the gloves come off and you have to start digging with your bare hands. This is where the developer comes into play.
One can argue "think outside the box" all they like, but if you manage to formulate a balance between Server-Side CMS and Client-Side CMS solutions, then you are years ahead of solutions such as Shado/FarCry/Common Spot etc
CMS by nature are solutions put in place to formulate the web development process, to allow the abstract thinking to take care of itself and make it a straight forward solution (backups, auto-archiving, auto-search engine seeding, auto-search-indexing etc).
The biggest problem and annoyance is a lot of software keyturn solution makers, have spun the "CMS for Dummies" tune way too much, which in return, raises everyones expectations on how a CMS should work. If it was that simple and dummies could run an enterprise level site out of the box, then we would all be out of a job. This isn't the case, so expecting an out of the box solution thats intuitive in the eyes of UI design is well, dreaming a little.
I know why you need a CMS solution, and we have reasons on why we chose SHADO vs FarCry, so feel free to ask those if you need to, but you won't get an Intranet solution straight out of a box. Its just not that easy i'm afraid.
--
Regards, Scott Barnes - http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.bestrates.com.au
Taco Fleur wrote:
Settle down Gary!mited its directors and employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein. Any recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and may not suit the specific requirements of clients. Assessments of suitability to an individual?s portfolio can only be made after an examination of the particular client?s investments, financial circumstances and requirements.
I am not making or are planning to make any better application than the two. My question was obviously the wrong question to ask on a DEVELOPER list, I guess sometimes I think that everybody can think outside the box..
Let's close the subject, because it has really derailed from what I was after..
Taco Fleur 07 3535 5072
Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn
-----Original Message----- From: Gary Menzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2004 12:25 PM To: CFAussie Mailing List Subject: [cfaussie] Re: [OT] CMS Shado vs FarCry -> User friendliness
OK, these two applications have chosen not to go that way which is their
prerogative, but for you to say it is normal I don't agree with..
Then, as I previously said, you have an excellent oportunity for a niche market. Can we expect the product to be available next week?
If you succeed, then these two fine vendors (Straker/Daemon) will either:
A) Pull their finger out and "get with the times" - once you demonstrate that it can be done as you suggest it can be
B) Curl up and die a cruel and harsh death because they just dont know what they are doing
[NOTE: the above are both toungue in cheek and I dont imagine either of those things coming to pass]
And I still note that you have not nominated your actual feature set as yet and have simply used a catch-all of "CMS" to describe what you want.
So, lets get real here. Nominate a feature set and then nominate a release date by which you will have the complete system available for download without any requirement to help the user through the process of installing and using the product.
My point?
I would imagine if it was possible to produce a CMS that did not require any designer/developer input that it would have already been built and none of us would be having this conversation and "someone" out there would be very rich.
The fact is, there are PLENTY of people out there that can't even install Word out of the box either (that's why lots of small businesses make money out of charging people to be trained in such things).
Gary Menzel Web Development Manager IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000 PH: 07 333 44 828 FX: 07 3834 0828
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