>From what i've read in some of the other posts, and i'm just being a reporter here - the situation with Flex, because it is compiled into a swf file, is going to be similar to that of Flash, namely that with any RIA, the controller, or part if it, should be on the client for the technology to function to it's full capacity.
So as I understand it, the root of the problem isn't in the framework that is used. The difference isn't there, it's in the fact that an RIA functions fundamentally differently from an HTML application, so if we give users the choice, the views are going to have different requirements. The problem is how to accomodate both intelligently in one application, hence the added tiers. At least that's what i've read and understood here. I've also read that it's one of the stated goals for Mach-ii to handle RIA's better than it does now. "Better support for integration with Flash (this is big on Hal's list too)" http://www.fusebox.org/forums/messageview.cfm?rssdate=TueDecember09%2C20038%3A11AM&cat id=26&threadid=2562 So by nature, it's a complex problem, but with Sean building combined HTML / RIA's for MM.com and the other contributers / authors of the framework, Ben and Hal, saying better integration with Flash is at the top of their list for improvements ... "the future's so bright - i gotta wear shades". \oo/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Douglas Humphris Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [CFCDev] Best Methodology/Framework for building RIA Sorry, I should explain myself a bit more: I haven't developed a commercial application using Mach-II yet, but have become quite excited about using it as a framework, and am hoping to use it for a large project early next year. The project will initially be a very complex shopping cart/payment gateway system for a large publishing house. We are looking at a phased development approach, phase 1 to build the system with basic html view, phase 2 to start building different views for different types of users: RIA, PDA, Disability access. Having read through this thread I've been a bit scared off this idea of using Mach-II for RIAs. I can handle three or four tier architecture, but n-tier is blowing my mind a bit! So, I was very interested to discover FLEX, and am wondering if this will simplify the n-tier approach that Sean talks about. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd be interested as it may help to justify using Mach-II without worrying that I'm making life more complex for myself when we reach phase 2 and start developing different views. Thanks, Douglas -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Douglas Humphris Sent: 10 December 2003 12:28 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [CFCDev] Best Methodology/Framework for building RIA Hi Sean et al, I'm late to this discussion, but I've recently been reading about Flex. Can someone tell me if the combination of Mach-II and FLEX will work well together for RIAs, and how they see the two interacting? Thanks, Douglas -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean A Corfield Sent: 06 December 2003 23:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CFCDev] Best Methodology/Framework for building RIA On Dec 6, 2003, at 2:29 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: > I have seen many try and shoehorn a three-tier architecture into > something useful for a Rich Internet Application by simply adding a > facade to their business-tier. However, this tends to fall down > because as it turns out many of the assumptions made in the > presentation-tier of a web application are very different to those of > a Flash application. Yes, in our RIAs, we have an n-tier approach something like this: client (web browser) presentation tier (Flash UI) business-presentation tier (Flash ActionScript controller) business-facade tier (ColdFusion CFC / web service facade) business-model tier (ColdFusion CFCs) integration tier (ColdFusion CFCs & Java) data tier (Oracle 9i) Note how the "business" tier is actually split into three distinct portions in our RIAs. In our Mach II applications, we try to adopt a very similar structure: client (web browser) presentation tier (ColdFusion .cfm pages) business-presentation tier (Mach II & listener CFCs) business-facade tier (ColdFusion CFC facade) business-model tier (ColdFusion CFCs) integration tier (ColdFusion CFCs & Java) data tier (Oracle 9i) The business-presentation tier is specific to either Flash or Mach II / CF. The business-facade tier *can* be identical between both RIA and HTML apps if necessary. The business-model tier is identical between both RIA and HTML apps. If we aren't concerned about a RIA version of an HTML app, we can simplify the architecture by collapsing the business-presentation tier and the business-facade tier (into a single business-controller tier). > I have found a four-tier architecture to be most appropriate. The four > tiers are database, service, business, and presentation. Here are some references to back up Matt's position: http://www.15seconds.com/issue/011023.htm http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/coldfusion/articles/ntier.html http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/flex/articles/design_patterns02.html http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flashcom/articles/scalable02.html Note that some folks call the "service" tier a data access tier or an integration tier (actually I suspect Matt's service tier is richer than that and contains quite a bit of what I would call the business-model tier - he refers to "business services" later on). > The database-tier and presentation-tier is no different than you would > have in a three-tier architecture. Although the presentation-tier is specific to your display technology of course - Flash in an RIA, .cfm in an HTML application. > In most of my applications the services are available as a local > object or as a web service. The business-tier is a little more tricky. > It needs to wrap the service-tier and enforce business rules for the > application. However, since the kind of applications we are talking > about are both HTML and Flash-based there needs to be two > implementations of the business-tier, one in CFML/Java and one in > Flash. The CF-based presentation-tier would use a business-tier > implemented in CFML and/or Java, while the Flash-based > presentation-tier would use a business-tier implemented in Flash. If you move from 4-tier to n-tier, you can separate out the business tier into layers where you can reuse some layers - whether that's worth the effort or not depends on whether you need both an HTML version and an RIA version of your app! Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ---------------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to cfcdev. 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