Thank you Skip,

I was finding myself really resisting your array solution until you mentioned 
the application to more complex J sentences. Then I thought the sliding matrix 
would still be confusing, but I could see the power in representing consecutive 
operations. 

What if instead of sliding the matrix along the operators right to left, we 
highlighted the token (either argument y or the current operator; x and y and 
the current operator for dyads) and projected the current value of the result 
below the line. Thus the values of y (and x) would stay unchanged and we could 
see the result transformation in place as the highlight moves down the line. 
I'll try to get an example up today, but I think this is very promising. Thank 
you so much for your persistence with this idea.

Cheers, bob

On -Mar17-2010, at -Mar17-201011:55 PM, Skip Cave wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> I still think leaving the plus alone on the left, and moving  the right 
> argument as a ghost over on top of the plus, shows what is happening 
> more clearly, while keeping some semblance of the original J code. This 
> can also extend to vectors and matrices. With vectors and matrices, you 
> don't have to replicate the plus to line up with all of the numbers. 
> Just center the vector or array of numbers over the left plus, and then 
> make the conjugation, solidify the array, and slide it down below the  
> original
> 
> I believe that all of the videos should display the initial equation as 
> close as possible to the actual J code, except with the numerical vector 
> or array replacing the variable name. Then the right argument should be 
> ghosted and moved either over the operator, or the left argument 
> depending on whether you are showing a monadic or dyadic function. The 
> result can then be shown, un-ghosted, and slid below the original 
> equation. In all cases, the original equation is left alone. with the 
> final result shown below it
> 
> One interesting ramification of this process is that more complex J 
> expressions can be demonstrated using the the same paradigm.  Starting 
> with the right argument, it is ghosted and moved to the left, the first 
> function is performed, the result solidified, and then ghosted again, 
> moved to the left and the next function  performed, solidified, ghosted, 
> moved, etc. When the final answer is arrived at, it is solidified and 
> moved below the original equation. This can also clarify the 
> right-to-left evaluation process as well.
> 
> This "ghost-moving-solidifying"  process can be used to demonstrate what 
> is going on with all of the primitives, as well as more complex J 
> expressions. In all cases the start is the J code, which should never 
> change.
> 
> Skip Cave
> 
> bob therriault wrote:
>> Hey everyone,
>> 
>> The longer and larger version of Conjugate is now posted at: 
>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus
>> Comments regarding speed, movement, content and clarity are welcome 
>> (especially from newcomers). Is this a useful animation?
>> 
>> Cheers, bob
>> 
>> On -Mar12-2010, at -Mar12-20108:17 AM, bob therriault wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I love that quote Catherine,
>>> 
>>> Going back to your frustration at  the 'hiding' of the Conjugate (+) 
>>> operation in vectors and matrices, I realized last night that the solution 
>>> may not be in showing the way the individual instances of Conjugate work on 
>>> each atom of a matrix, but by using more scalar examples initially to show 
>>> a wider range of inputs and outputs for Conjugate. 
>>> 
>>> Today, i'll work at putting together a 'Club Mix' of the shorter animation. 
>>> It'll have more examples, be larger and run a little longer. This might be 
>>> a bridge between the short reference version and the longer tutorial 
>>> version that may include interaction and/or voice-over. If both versions 
>>> were kept on the reference page the user would have a choice between a 
>>> quick check, or a more extended description.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, bob
>>> 
>>> On -Mar11-2010, at -Mar11-20104:14 PM, Catherine Lathwell wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> To quote Ken, when I first talked to him about the doc project... "Maybe 
>>>> all
>>>> that Art School is good for something after all!"  :)
>>>> 
>>>> shhhhhh.... don't tell I didn't know how J does minus!  :)
>>>> 
>>>> C
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Devon McCormick <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Catherine - APL uses the same character for the same thing - it's just
>>>>> positioned differently.
>>>>> 
>>>>> BTW - your feedback is particularly valuable - please continue...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Devon
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Catherine Lathwell <[email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What's the deal with the _ character?  Is this how J works these days?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> 
>>>>>> not really up on the J vocabulary, so I didn't understand conjugate
>>>>>> 
>>>>> before
>>>>> 
>>>>>> this... so it took me a couple of runs to figure out that it's *minus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> *you
>>>>> 
>>>>>> mean. My first few rounds, I was scratching my head trying to figure out
>>>>>> what the heck you need an underscore in your number for.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Devon McCormick, CFA
>>>>> ^me^ at acm.
>>>>> org is my
>>>>> preferred e-mail
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Catherine Lathwell
>>>> http://www.aprogramminglanguage.com
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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