Hi Ellen, I will take a stab at this. I have to say that I don't think of a 6yr old dog as older. I think that I would want to wait and see how the dog's murmur progresses over some time, before I would consider using the dog. As you have mentioned, there are the dogs that get a murmur young, it progresses very slowly and causes them little stress (I have one like that), then there are the others that get a murmur at 7 and are dead by 9. That is the MVD that worries me.
I think that even for a dog, breeding can be stressful, on a stressed heart. There are enough dogs that are clear that I would be less inclined to use a dog with a murmur, unless the dog was quite older and the murmur had been one that progressed slowly over a few years. It is a hard decision. Just an opinion, Kindest regards, Kim At 07:13 AM 1/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hypothetical question, > Really, this is not about any particular situation, just want some thoughts. A cavalier tests heart clear via cardiologist auscultation at age 5. Obviously we all agree it is OK to breed this cavalier per the guidelines. What would you do if when you test the dog when it is 6 or 7and it has a Grade 3 or 4 murmur , per auscultation? Would you stop breeding that cavalier? Would it make a difference if it were a male or female? >Why? > I think we are all seeing different forms of the MVD, with the dogs that test clear for years and boom - they are gone in 6 months - to the dogs that test with murmurs from an early age that never progresses and they live a fairly normal lifespan. Would it be OK for a dog with a murmur to breed, but not a bitch because of the prolonged stress and load on her heart of a pregnancy? What have any of you ever done in this situation? Obviously, I would get a second opinion and move up to ultrasound/doppler - but what if that opinion concurred? Would you stop using that dog even though the guidelines say heart clear after 2.5 years with 5 years being ideal? Is anyone out there doing research to try to differentiate these different outcomes with MVD? > Some of you who have been on this list with me from the beginning know our experiences with cardiology testing and our opinion that it is somewhat subjective and very frustrating to base breeding decisions on, when the cardiologists in the same practice don't even agree. I think we all try to use common sense and experience, but this question of breeding an older dog with a known murmur is curious to me because of the increased reports of clear cavaliers who are diagnosed with a murmur and are dead within a year or two. Do we need to factor this into our decisions? Everybody talks about looking for lines with long-lived dogs. Are those long-lived dogs living long with a mild murmur? If so, who cares? I wouldn't throw out testing, but I will never throw out a great dog again because of it. >thoughts?..... >Would love to hear from the experienced, long term cavalier breeders. >Ellen Poti >Avia Cavaliers >Ohio,USA > >"Magic Commands": >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?bodyto start it up gain click here: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
