Myra, check with Suzanne Brown. She gave her litter to a vet school for study. (The litter was severely affected) She can tell you which school. I am sure that there is documentation on the condition there. I faintly remember it as being the vet school in TN, but could be wrong. Also, retrospective mating makes me lean toward recessive threshold as mode of inheritance. Sometimes you don't have to do a study with test mating, you just have to study ancestry to see the pattern. A genetic defect does have a particular pattern of inheritance if you follow it through the generations. In addition, this defect has been experienced by more than one breeder so each home would have a different method of feeding and care. I have yet to see two breeders who have identical environments. All the best, Susan Cochran
----- Original Message ----- From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > Yes, but....coming from a medical background, anecdotal evidence doesn't > always impress me. I'm not saying that it isn't genetic, but I am saying > that until it is known for a certainty that it is....it probably isn't good > to speculate. Myra > > > >From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:02:14 -0400 > > > >Myra, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that rough coat is genetic. It > >appears to be making a comeback after relatively few occurances for many > >years. That is what happens with a genetic recessive. For a while, people > >were breeding for other things, but now there has been a concentrated > >effort > >to breed for longevity or hearts. When you do this, you increase the number > >of carriers that are bred and you increase the number of carriers in the > >population as well. Every dog has some "genetic junk", ever the heart > >clear > >ones. The art of breeding is to match them up so the defective genes don't > >match up and cause an affected puppy. > > > >The main idea is that breeders started going after the longevity lines and > >this is a defect that is in some of them. Parrot mouth is in the longevity > >lines too, but the two defects are not linked. They can be inherited > >separately. > >All the best, > >Susan Cochran > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:33 PM > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > > > Yes, but Cathy..... Where is the proof that it IS genetic? Myra > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cathy J. Gish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:52:41 -0500 > > > > > > > >Sorry dear this is not environmental. It is genetic. And we have NO > >proof > > > >that > > > >it is not. > > > > > > > >Where is that gardener.... Loved that little thing Rosanne sent us > >didn't > > > >you..... Maybe have to rethink this gardener thing and hang out at the > >fire > > > >station. Nice dogs at the fire department. > > > > > > > >LOL > > > >Cathy > > > > > > > >Myra Savant wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, but we do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is > >genetic. > > > > > Think thalidomide here, Cathy. You're an RN, you've seen these > >things > > > > > before that look chromosomal at first glance but then prove to be > > > > > environmental. Myra > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cathy J. Gish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:58:36 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it may be the tendency > > > > > > > that is what is inherited and environment may play a major role > >in > > > > > > > manifestation of the defect. After all, the tendency for > >alcoholism > > > >is > > > > > > > apparently inherited, but if the person never takes a drink, > >they'll > > > > > >never > > > > > > > develop the problem. > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > Susan Cochran > > > > > > > > > > > >But a puppy is not drinking something that brings this on it is a > > > >visible, > > > > > >genetic defect. Present and seen from birth. > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Cathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Leanne Bertani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 1:36 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know of at least three litters where only one puppy in an > > > >otherwise > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > litter was affected. Those cases are unlikely to have been > > > > > >nutritional in > > > > > > > > origin. I have also heard from breeders in England (different > > > >feeding > > > > > > > > methods?) who have had the problem, sometimes whole litters, > > > >sometimes > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also know of two litters from the same dam (different sire) > >with > > > >one > > > > > > > > affected puppy in each litter; the rest of the puppies in both > > > >litters > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > >email: > > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > > > > 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> > > > > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > >to start it up gain click here: > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > >Search the Archives... > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > to start it up 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