If entire litters are affected, does it sound like a case of simple recessives to you? When entire litters are affected, we have to move away from the simple recessive gene for our answer. Myra
>From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:14:33 -0400 > >Myra, check with Suzanne Brown. She gave her litter to a vet school for >study. (The litter was severely affected) She can tell you which school. I >am sure that there is documentation on the condition there. I faintly >remember it as being the vet school in TN, but could be wrong. Also, >retrospective mating makes me lean toward recessive threshold as mode of >inheritance. Sometimes you don't have to do a study with test mating, you >just have to study ancestry to see the pattern. A genetic defect does have >a >particular pattern of inheritance if you follow it through the generations. >In addition, this defect has been experienced by more than one breeder so >each home would have a different method of feeding and care. I have yet to >see two breeders who have identical environments. >All the best, >Susan Cochran > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 8:13 PM >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > Yes, but....coming from a medical background, anecdotal evidence doesn't > > always impress me. I'm not saying that it isn't genetic, but I am >saying > > that until it is known for a certainty that it is....it probably isn't >good > > to speculate. Myra > > > > > > >From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:02:14 -0400 > > > > > >Myra, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that rough coat is genetic. >It > > >appears to be making a comeback after relatively few occurances for >many > > >years. That is what happens with a genetic recessive. For a while, >people > > >were breeding for other things, but now there has been a concentrated > > >effort > > >to breed for longevity or hearts. When you do this, you increase the >number > > >of carriers that are bred and you increase the number of carriers in >the > > >population as well. Every dog has some "genetic junk", ever the heart > > >clear > > >ones. The art of breeding is to match them up so the defective genes >don't > > >match up and cause an affected puppy. > > > > > >The main idea is that breeders started going after the longevity lines >and > > >this is a defect that is in some of them. Parrot mouth is in the >longevity > > >lines too, but the two defects are not linked. They can be inherited > > >separately. > > >All the best, > > >Susan Cochran > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:33 PM > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but Cathy..... Where is the proof that it IS genetic? Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cathy J. Gish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:52:41 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >Sorry dear this is not environmental. It is genetic. And we have NO > > >proof > > > > >that > > > > >it is not. > > > > > > > > > >Where is that gardener.... Loved that little thing Rosanne sent us > > >didn't > > > > >you..... Maybe have to rethink this gardener thing and hang out at >the > > >fire > > > > >station. Nice dogs at the fire department. > > > > > > > > > >LOL > > > > >Cathy > > > > > > > > > >Myra Savant wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but we do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is > > >genetic. > > > > > > Think thalidomide here, Cathy. You're an RN, you've seen these > > >things > > > > > > before that look chromosomal at first glance but then prove to >be > > > > > > environmental. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cathy J. Gish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:58:36 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it may be the tendency > > > > > > > > that is what is inherited and environment may play a major >role > > >in > > > > > > > > manifestation of the defect. After all, the tendency for > > >alcoholism > > > > >is > > > > > > > > apparently inherited, but if the person never takes a drink, > > >they'll > > > > > > >never > > > > > > > > develop the problem. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > Susan Cochran > > > > > > > > > > > > > >But a puppy is not drinking something that brings this on it is >a > > > > >visible, > > > > > > >genetic defect. Present and seen from birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > > >Cathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Leanne Bertani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Rough coat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know of at least three litters where only one puppy in >an > > > > >otherwise > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > litter was affected. Those cases are unlikely to have >been > > > > > > >nutritional in > > > > > > > > > origin. I have also heard from breeders in England >(different > > > > >feeding > > > > > > > > > methods?) who have had the problem, sometimes whole >litters, > > > > >sometimes > > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also know of two litters from the same dam (different >sire) > > >with > > > > >one > > > > > > > > > affected puppy in each litter; the rest of the puppies in >both > > > > >litters > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > > >email: > > > > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for >assistance. > > > > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > > > > > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its > > >original > > > > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > > >email: > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > > > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its >original > > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > > >http://www.FlyingColorsCavaliers.com > > > > > > > > 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Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
