Hi Debbie,
Couple of thoughts:
1. Judy Gates makes a good point in her reply to you (and adding to my
earlier reply to you), though I think we'd all agree that a TRULY aggressive
Cavalier is rare (and so far, Holly doesn't sound like one). Judy mentioned
"biting" -- but I didn't read anywhere that the young Cavalier *you* wrote
about is *biting*! (Did I miss a post somewhere?) So my comments here are
based on my assumption that Holly is not actually *biting.* Also, I am
still convinced that there is a difference between "defensive growling" (per
Judy G.) and PLAYFUL growling. An activity like tug-of-war can be an
innocent game, or it can be an angry war. *Both* are typically accompanied
by similar sound effects (growling) -- you need to be able to know and read
your dog accurately to distinguish between the two.
2. I'm not suggesting they're "misrepresenting" the aggression they see.
I AM suggesting they may very well be *misinterpreting* what they see, and
believing it (erroneously) to be aggression. In fact, your elaboration in
your follow-up note suggests this (to me, anyway). For one thing, the fact
that the original owner sent her back because she didn't get along with her
terrier doesn't necessarily prove anything negative about Holly; in my
limited experience with terriers I've gotten the impression there *may* be
certain breeds, including certain terriers (no, Liz G., I'm not talking
about Norfolks!) that might be less likely to get along with (in fact, could
be overly aggressive toward) a Cavalier. Even if I preferred not to make
this generalization, it's certainly been the case with individual dogs. If
Holly truly has a problem with aggression, I do think you would have seen
*some* evidence yourself, after she was returned to you.
3. So I still seriously doubt that the problem lies with Holly. (I'm not
being argumentative, but so far nothing you've written supports the current
owners' contention that she's aggressive just because she growls when they
try to take a toy away -- since I'm not assuming that the owners can
distinguish between play-growls and aggressive growls.) I still wonder
*why* they decide to take away a *toy* when she's playing with it. Why
would anyone need to do that? If it's a toy, it's to be played with.
Taking it from her is likely to be interpreted by the dog as EITHER an act
of aggression against her (if indeed she's growling defensively) OR, more
likely, as trying to start a game of tug-of-war (which will provoke
play-growling). If they really have a good reason to take a toy away (like
if Holly's torn it open and is eating the stuffing), all they'd have to do
is interest her in a different toy!
4. If I were you, I wouldn't suggest they go after the poor dog with a
rolled up newspaper. That's just treating aggression (as *they've*
interpreted it) with aggression. Even worse perhaps, it could amount to
threatening/punishing the dog for trying to get them to play with her.
5. Your second suggestion was much better, provided they don't make Holly
feel *tricked* for dropping the toy in favor of a treat! They should handle
this as a true reward, not a trick.
I guess this turned out to be more than a "couple of thoughts." But I
find it very sad when a dog is misunderstood by a human (and I've seen it
all too often).
Alida
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:37:34 EDT
> From: Debbie Dame <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Training to stop aggression
>
> Hi Alida,
>
> I don't believe that they are misrepresenting the aggression they see.
>
> The pup was originally sold to a woman in Calif. who after having her 4-5
> months returned her because she said that she didn't get along with her
> terrier. I had her back here with me for about 2-3 weeks before I resold
her
> to the people who are now having the problem. She never showed any signs
of
> aggression while here.
>
> They have explained the problem to me like this:
>
> If Holly gets a toy or something she isn't supposed to have when
they
> try to take it away from her she will growl and act aggressive to them.
> Other than that, she is very outgoing and friendly with everyone and with
> other dogs. I never saw any aggression while she was here, but I'm sure
that
> she remembered me as Mom.
>
> My thoughts were that maybe the Terrier and she had a problem with
> toys and possessions which may have started this whole behavior. I told
them
> to take a rolled up newspaper after her when they wanted to take something
> away instead of just trying to grab it. I also thought that maybe
offering a
> treat as a distraction when taking something away might help to reinforce
it
> being a good thing to give something up for something else.
>
> Debbie
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:07:35 -0400
From: Alida Margolin-Ahlskog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Training to stop aggression
Debbie, how are you/they defining "aggression?" I have to wonder whether
the puppy's owners are inexperienced with dogs and/or ignorant of normal
dog behavior. Your brief description sounds like *perfectly normal* PLAY!!
She's probably trying to entice the owner into a game of tug-of-war. Her
"acting out" is probably a combination of growling, holding the toy (or
other object) tightly between her jaws, and running away. This is normal!
And if this is what it is, I would be *a lot* more concerned that the
owners regard this as "problem behavior." (They might need a little
training themselves...) I think many if not most Cavaliers (especially
young ones!) have a huge appetite for play, including -- importantly --
*interactive* play, i.e., it's not enough to assume that a dog will (or
should be) be satisfied simply playing by itself.
Also, have you investigated *when and why* they try to take a *toy* away
from her?? If they want to clean the house, for instance, they can either
distract the dog with another object she can play with, or they can simply
do something else and pick up the toy after she's gotten bored and left it.
A final thought re training: "Leave it" or "Drop it" are commands that can
be trained; for this as well as much else, clicker-training is highly
recommended. HOWEVER, I think before someone attempts to train any dog they
should be knowledgeable about normal canine behavior, instincts, and
communication. This will prevent misdiagnosing "problems" -- and prevent
the possibility of misunderstanding and/or inadvertently mistreating a dog
who's simply being a normal dog.
Alida
> Hi List,
>
> I'm writing to ask your help with some training tips. A young female
> Cavalier (8 mos.) seems to have developed a problem behavior with her
owners.
> She will growl and show aggression when they try to take something away
from
> her. It may be a toy or something else, but when they go to take it away
she
> will act out.
>
> If you have any experience or tips on how to change this behavior, please
let
> me hear from you.
>
> Thank you,
> Debbie Dame
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=========================================================
"Magic Commands":
to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL
to start it up gain click here:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance.
Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html
All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
