Brian,
FWIW, I'd claim that maven does deliver on all five points you list.
Of note is that it absolutely is IDE-agnostic (I used NetBeans in the
screencast because that's what I use -- you can load up maven-defined
projects in Eclipse and IntelliJ just as easily). I'm not an emacs
user, so I'm unsure what "love" would mean there, but I'd be surprised
if there wasn't a maven mode somewhere, etc.
The package browsing/searching story is probably the weakest. There's http://mvnrepository.com
, which I just found 2 minutes ago. We have an internal Nexus
installation (which caches all of the dependencies we've ever
retrieved, so that our builds won't fail if the 'net is down, maven
central is down, build.clojure.org is down, etc), which provides a
very nice search interface.
I'm not entirely sure what would be required from clojure-maven-plugin
(for example) for maven to achieve greater acceptance in the
community...as I mentioned, I'm relatively new to maven myself (~ 6
months in), and I paved the rough spots that I hit, but it's hard to
speculate because people's workflows and specific requirements are so
different. My guess is that once the Clojure-flavored Polyglot Maven
project becomes fully-baked, it will become the de facto standard, as
XML allergies really are the biggest deterrent right now IMO.
Cheers,
- Chas
On Mar 25, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Brian Carper wrote:
On Mar 25, 11:55 am, Chas Emerick <cemer...@snowtide.com> wrote:
I published a blog post earlier today, along with a short screencast
that might be of interest:
"Like any group of super-smart programmers using a relatively new
language, a lot of folks in the Clojure community have looked at
existing build tools (the JVM space is the relevant one here, meaning
primarily Maven and Ant, although someone will bark if I don't
mention
Gradle, too), and felt a rush of disdain. I'd speculate that this
came
mostly because of XML allergies, but perhaps also in part because
when
one has a hammer as glorious as Clojure, it's hard to not want to use
it to beat away at every problem in sight."
Ruby: gem install X
Perl: perl -MCPAN -e shell, then "install X"
Why does building and installing dependencies have to be harder than
this? Lein right now tries to fill this niche of being braindead easy
to use, and comes pretty close. I realize Maven does a lot more than
build and install dependencies, but for some of us, that's all we want
out of life, and it's pretty nice when it's that easy to do so.
My dream tool would be:
1) Platform-agnostic (for us sorry souls stuck on Windows at work)
2) IDE-agnostic ("make a Netbeans project" is great, but Emacs users
need some love too)
3) Easy to understand and use for the kinds of tasks Lein covers (I
don't want to have to study a Maven book(!) if I can avoid it)
4) Able to handle most or all Clojure and Java libraries I want to
install (I don't want to have to circumvent the build tool and do
things manually if I can help it)
5) Able to easily "browse" or search for packages in remote
repositories, would be nice
Rubygems and Perl's CPAN can handle those kinds of things, for
example. If Maven can be those things, I'll have an XML sandwich for
lunch with a smile if necessary. : ) Maybe it can and the community
just needs to standardize around Maven and provide good documentation
and community support for using it with Clojure. I just hope the
community standardizes around something; any standard is better than
everyone using a different tool.
Thanks
--Brian
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