In 2008 I was surveying alternatives to Java, I wanted something concise and needed better support for concurrency, parallelism , ... We had a prototype written in Java but I could not see how we could get a decent product out using Java without making the business case crumble.
I looked at Scala but to me it was not a significant departure from Java. After looking at Ruby which at that time seemed weak in terms of concurrency (jruby was not out yet or in its infancy), I found Clojure. This was not by accident. I started to look for a Lisp running on the JVM to leverage part of the work that had been done here, code = data and expressiveness after the other alternatives failed to meet my checklist. This selection was based strictly on features. Not on the surface of things which can be very noisy and very deceiving in the long run. I was almost certain that I could leverage the JVM stuff afterward, reuse some existing code and benefit from the JVM legacy. I did not fell in the "Scala trap" nor in the "Ruby trap" except for a few GUIs made with Rail (these days it's ClojureScript that's replacing it) :) I knew Lisp syntax already (aside from a dozen other languages) but I did not consider this as a selection criteria. I wanted expressiveness and Lisps had a good track record in this area for decades. As a bonus, Clojure syntax is an improvement over older Lisps and that is overlooked by many who do not looked at "traditional" Lisp code. Features, features, .... Luc > A couple of quick reactions... > > The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or > green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties. > > Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like > core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut... > just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a > one-to-one mapping. > > People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with > them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular > and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an > abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they > model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the > abstract computer they are programming. > > I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula > language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a > syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with > something like that right now. > > I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure > feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no > going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally > appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay > all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes > getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply.. > in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be > as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-( > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru > > > > <razvan.rot...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether > > people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I > > would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You. > > > > Here's the link: > > > > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform > > > > Răzvan > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am > Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net > Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp > Blog: http://goodstuff.im > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Softaddicts<lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> sent by ibisMail from my ipad! -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
