Gary: Immutability is awesome, the ease to work with concurrency in Clojure is fantastic and the interop with Java is very good when you compare with others JVM mainstream languages. But I'm affraid that these technical features that are very important for us, devs, don't sell the language for the standard developer or for most of companies.
I started to work with Clojure because I saw the beauty of the language and I feel in he wild the boost of productivity after some time of slow development, but I cannot sell the language in my company only presenting thoses facts. Andrey: I think Paulo showed us a problem (of many others) that we're refusing to see. Clojure, as a LISP, is a powerful and elegant tool. As a JVM language, is built on a powerful and solid platform, with a whole world of mature and well finished components to almost every problem. But, as I wrote, it's not enough to sell Clojure to the 'common people', and even worst to the 'common manager people'. I think the syntax of Clojure is so dead easy that I have a presentation where I can explain the whole idea in five minutes. But again the Average Joe just will mumble about 'too much parenthesis' and won't see any advantage with Clojure. To the Avg Joe, Scala is nice because 'it looks like Java'. The same Avg Joe thought the Ruby syntax was awkward, but Rails made an army of Joes (like me) to dive into Ruby and after to a better way to work with OOP, even today Rails is not the main use of Ruby. I share the same concerns of Paulo, and I don't see a mainstream future for Clojure as a main language without a really attractive tool as a showcase. Regards Plínio On Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:56:15 PM UTC-3, Gary Trakhman wrote: > > Clojure's killer app is immutable datastructures. Libraries can > interoperate extremely easily because their interface is described with > simple data structures. > > What's Java got for this? Spring? Design Patterns? > > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, James Reeves > <ja...@booleanknot.com<javascript:> > > wrote: > >> Why does Clojure need a single "killer app"? I use Clojure because it has >> a wide range of useful tools, not because of any one tool in particular. >> >> To my mind, any language that promotes itself on the basis of a single >> tool is indicative of specialisation, which isn't what I want in a >> programming language. For instance, back in 2008, Ruby on Rails was the >> killer app of Ruby, but the rest of the ecosystem of the library was rather >> bare. Nowadays Ruby has a far greater range of libraries and tools, and >> Rails has become just one tool out of many, rather than the sole reason >> people turn to the language. >> >> That said, Clojure boasts several tools that aren't found many other >> places, and yet are extremely useful. Recently I've been using core.async, >> and now I find it difficult to imagine handling asynchronous communications >> without it. I'd almost say that was a killer app if Clojure didn't have so >> many other tools that have features that are just as compelling. >> >> - James >> >> >> >> On 19 April 2014 17:15, Paulo Suzart <paulo...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote: >> >>> Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) >>> >>> Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to >>> what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. >>> >>> I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't >>> believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become >>> main technology in a old school /ordinary company. >>> >>> People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more >>> specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they >>> talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... >>> >>> Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and >>> avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to >>> cover from Web to big data and batch? >>> >>> Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? >>> Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further >>> than the current server side. >>> >>> What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the "create thousand >>> disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix" approach doesn't make >>> me give up clojure. >>> >>> Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't >>> see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. >>> >>> What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure >>> supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
