The ‘hanging knees’ on Penniless are made of plywood. I re-drilled one when I moved the chainplate because it was not symmetrical with the other side. Quite stout and well tabbed. I don’t seem to have any dimples, but have #593 and a tan hull.
Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:17 PM To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>; Dave S <syerd...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Buckled Topsides at the Chainplates (was Re: Brokers and surveyors) So, what I've got is a "flat spot", not a "hard spot", in Don Casey's language. He says "Flat spots in the curved parts of a hull indicate trouble. They occasionally occur because the manufacturer removed the hull from the mold too soon, but more often they indicate weakness, damage, or a poorly executed repair. Rigging tension can dimple a flimsy hull around the chainplate attachment points." This is consistent with what Mike Hoyt said earlier in this thread, about the boatbuilder and marina founder in his former club noticing and repairing this kind of dimpling in just about every C&C 30 MK I he brought in to the marina for resale. In my boat's case (30-1 hull #7) the hull is solid fiberglass, not cored, with a "hanging knee" on the inside to which the chainplate bolts. I don't know if that hanging knee is cored or not. But I'll find out soon when I pull the chainplates for inspection and re-bedding. I also don't know if a solid fiberglass hull is more or less "flimsy" than a cored hull. In any case, I'll inspect and the area again very carefully, including percussion testing for delamination, and looking for cracked tabbing etc. where knee meets hull. Hopefully this is not an indication of flimsiness, weakness, or damage, but rather an example of an apparently common and benign (?) issue in early 30-1s caused by overtightened shrouds. Rick Bushie if you're reading this, I'd love to hear whether Anchovy has this issue. Same goes for any other 30-1 owners reading this. Again my surveyor did not flag this, demonstrating Dave S.'s original point about the variability of surveyors. And I didn't notice it until after buying the boat, while "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" myself to understand in detail what I'd bought into. Now I wish I'd read Don Casey first :) But I'm not panicked about it. I sailed Grenadine in 30+ knots several times this year (once under full main and 150% genoa, on port tack close reach in fact, stressing that port chainplate knee), and she didn't tear apart. :) And I managed to take first in my club's fall series, dimple and all. Cheers, Randy _____ From: "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > To: "C&c Stus List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Cc: "Dave S" <syerd...@gmail.com <mailto:syerd...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:38:52 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Buckled Topsides at the Chainplates (was Re: Brokers and surveyors) Graham's description is pretty much what I saw on one of two Corvettes I looked at closely. IIRC the corvette has one chainplate attached to a bulkhead, another to a "hanging knee". In one case (the boat where the hull distortion was pronounced) The hanging knee's glass tabbing was fractured. this is really not a huge repair for a handy person, and the owner had the work done for a reasonable price after we first went over the boat together. Hinterholler was quite thoughtful, and cored these boats with plywood that used what I think was resorcinol glue. which leeches purple fluid when the wood is wet. Easy to see where the water has entered. These repairs do not fix the hull buckling/DIMPLES but the boat would probably be improved structurally with a careful DIY repair.. I started looking for this problem after that, and I think you'd be surprised how many old boats suffer this affliction and how badly distorted some are. Since we're talking about this...the other corvette - I'll name this one - "Egret" was, sadly, a real mess, much of the interior rotten, including those knees. The owner was an elderly guy and neglect had claimed the boat, I think I could have gotten it for nothing which would not have been a great deal. He reached out a few times asking for an offer - any offer - and thankfully I resisted the impulse. I wrote him a detailed survey explaining exactly what I thought was needed to be repair the boat, which was to replace 75% of the interior, bulkheads, etc. (I had poked my finger through a few, and I bet in an afternoon with a grinder and zip disc I could have had it to a mostly bare shell. This would have been easier than patching what was still intact. He lost that document and requested it months later for some other buyer. It would not surprise me if it is in the hands of a list member. Pretty little boats, I hope someone has restored Egret - a pleasant winter's work for someone with the time. Dave --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Graham Young <grahamyoung...@sbcglobal.net <mailto:grahamyoung...@sbcglobal.net> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> " <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Cc: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:15:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: An over-tensioned rig and/or weak laminate is also one of the explanations that Don Casey gives for dimples near the chain plates in his book on inspecting old boats. He also points out that "hard spots" may result from the hull flexing over an internal structure like a bulkhead. This may be cosmetic, but apparently the concern would be whether the glass is fractured and the hull weakened. He also recommends standing astern to see if the hull (and rudder/keel) are fair and true as they can distort over time for a variety of reasons including how they are blocked in the yard. These are not issue unique to C&C's, but potentially could afflict most any boat. Graham Spellbound Cleveland, O. _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
