"If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth?" - Well I suppose it depends on the framerate! Haha
PYI (PSS shaft seal, Max-Prop, R&D Marine) states simply that reusing the old solid coupling is wrong and likely to result in misalignment. Maine Sailor from Compass Marine and Marine How-to has a compelling video. https://youtu.be/onmkD4PnRlk So, I had every intention of replacing the old solid coupling. Lots of people suggested a split coupling for easier installation and removal in the future (and likely future reuse). The typical buck algonquin split coupling was first on the list but seemed to have limited build quality. My machinist agreed and spoke of split couplings with disdain... Until he saw the one I have. I had found it years ago but never had a reason to buy. At only a marginal increase in price it was relatively easy to justify over the buck algonquin. It also appears to be made of stainless however no marketing about its material properties are available. As for replacing the log? I don't exactly know how one would replace. I suppose that you would sand/grind out the existing bore and then rebed a new FRP tube in its place with thickened epoxy. Fill and fare the outside where it exits the hull. My log has "shmutz" on the inside interface where it enters the hull. I don't know what normal looks like but this appears to be DIY not OEM. Rob was my first contact. He more or less stated that he designs the hulls not the finer details. The cutlass bearing is the real limit with regards to alignment. Having the shaft NOT twisting in the strut is the most important aspect. If the firberglass tube which makes the shaft log is not perfectly aligned with the straight line from the engine to the strut then the seal will need to articulate/be adjusted to align so the seal face it perpendicular to the shaft. In a perfect world everything works but we've all discusses the asymmetrical aspects of our boats before. I like the design, engineering, and service of PYI products. Everything I have bought or needed from them has been top notch. The boat came with their Max-Prop and PSS shaft seal. I added the coupling dampener a few years back when I replaced the engine mounts with the PYI (R&D Marine) mounts. I have known that periodic replacement of certain parts of the PSS are required. Per PYI it should happen every 5 to 7 years. I've had the boat for 8 and have no idea when the PO installed the seal. I'm already on borrowed time. I think the primary concern is that the rubber bellows which applies pressure to the seal face will get weak and relax over time. This can be mitigated by periodically relocating the stainless collar to add compression. This past October a boat neighbor who had PSS shaft seal started their engine and put it in gear only to promptly hear a thump, thump, thump. He quickly shutdown the engine and ultimately found that the stainless ring had seized to the carbon ring, upon putting it in gear the rubber bellows tore circumferentially! He was able to realign the rubber pieces and mitigate the majority of the water now entering the boat. This was all the motivation I needed to take action. The Last Drop II seal doesn't risk a bellow rupture, tear, or relaxation. The hose is superior silicone and the pressure is provided by a stainless spring. Unlike the PSS seal, the stainless ring portion (which is taking up some added shaft space) does not need grub screws to damage the shaft. No drilling dimples, nothing. The spring is far less likely to relax than the rubber bellows of the PSS. The price for a rebuild kit for PSS had already made me consider a complete replacement. The marginal increase in price for the Last Drop II made it an easy choice. Despite already being long winded I could go into further details and advantages of any one of the products I have mentioned. I think talking it out and hearing other's thoughts has solidified my decision to cut the log. Thanks. All the best, Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:12 Bill Coleman via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth? > > First off, before I forget, where on earth did you get that handsome SS > Transmission flange? That is sweet! > > > > And you mention the PO may have replaced the log with longer, how do you > replace that? Isn’t that a basic part of the structure? As far as the > length, I do think it is too long. I think you could lose a couple inches > off that with no problem. But as long as we have professional mentoring on > the list, I would be curious to hear what Rob thinks, but I would think a > few inches should be more than enough. It the thing is too long, you end up > having a lot of leverage on it, and if the shaft were wobbly, which could > stress it. Plus it gives the hose more flexibility. > > > > You mention that you fine-tuned the alignment, but that the shaft is not > perfectly aligned in the log – When I replaced my engine in 2007, I aligned > the shaft it so it exited the log perfectly from the outside, and was > centered in the log. Then I adjusted the engine to fit, so the flange and > the tranny flange were within a couple thousands with a feeler gauge. > > > > I see what you mean with the bolts, I also installed one of those, but > forgot the bolts go both ways. A couple inches off the log should give you > the clearance you need, no? > > > > Curious to see how you like it after the PYI. In maybe 18 years, I had > zero problems with my PYI, and I never burped it, but maybe once or twice. > But in my latest boat I am now thinking of replacing the existing PYI. On > launching last week, I burped it, and went about taking it over to the > dock, and noticed my perfectly dry bilge filling up with water. Long story > short, after 45 minutes of sucking water out, and looking for the leak > around all the through hulls and hoses, I finally found it leaking pretty > good around the carbon and SS seal on the shaft – Must have gotten some > crap in between the mating surfaces during burping. It took a bunch more > burping and wiggling around to get it to stop. > > It was a little unnerving, to say the least. > > > > So there is likely to be a Last Drop in my future as well. > > > > Bill Coleman > > Erie PA > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh > Muckley via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:13 PM > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Josh Muckley > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shortening the shaft log by cutting > > > > Bill, > > > > Just for you. > > > > https://youtu.be/d0FQPlcPDeM > > > > Josh > > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:10 Bill Coleman via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > Well, you just do how-to videos. That’s what you do. So, I am > anticipating you will do one on this, and looking forward to this! > > You are kind of filling Wally’s shoes on the documentation side. > > > > I just watched the video, > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=6xx8qz1Fgk0&feature=emb_logo > > and they had tons of space on that. > > > > If I am understanding you right, couldn’t you just poke the bolts through > from the back to the tranny, so you don’t have the length of the bolts to > contend with? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh > Muckley via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:22 AM > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Josh Muckley > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shortening the shaft log by cutting > > > > Bill, > > > > I can do a video but would like to know what it should focus on... My > situation and questions, of my ultimate solution? > > > > Josh > > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 09:20 Bill Coleman via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > That’s a lot to unpack. > > I am having trouble visualizing all this, but I am very interested, > especially in the Last Drop seal, I hope you do one of your famous videos. > > > > Bill Coleman > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh > Muckley via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:01 AM > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Josh Muckley > *Subject:* Stus-List Shortening the shaft log by cutting > > > > I've asked a few of you personally so if this is a repeat then please > disregard. > > > > I'm in the process of replacing/rebuilding the drive train on my C&C 37+. > In the process I'm replacing the shaft, shaft coupling, shaft seal and > strut bearing. > > > > The old seal was a PSS seal and the old coupling was a standard solid > coupling. I had had a R&D Marine (PYI) coupling dampener and planned to > reuse. The new seal is a Last Drop II from Sailor Sam's. The new coupling > is a split coupling from R&D Marine. The new seal and coupling have added > length which ultimately leaves only about 1.5 inches of free shaft at most. > > > > So here comes the question. > > > > First: Any concerns with only having 1.5 inches of free shaft? I have 3. > > - getting the coupling dampener installed requires the couplings to be > separated by not just the thickness of the dampener buy rather by the > thickness of the coupling bolts. > > - getting the split coupling on could be complicated > > - with the shaft seal bottomed out on the log there is less articulation > available in the seal tube. The seal uses a delrin bearing to center > itself on the shaft but without room to flex the bearing will just ride > harder on the shaft and can even overheat. > > > > Second: > > The seal engages with the shaft log by at least 4 inches. If I cut the > log shorter, then I could push the seal deeper onto the log and get a bit > more free shaft and room for the seal to articulate. Can any of you see > any drawbacks or pitfalls to cutting the log short? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Josh Muckley > > S/V Sea Hawk > > 1989 C&C 37+ > > Solomons, MD > > _______________________________________________ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > _______________________________________________ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > _______________________________________________ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > >
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