I can say it has been true in the past, even if it is no longer the case. It is 
not something I test with each OS release. I certainly can move a window almost 
entirely offscreen—enough to not notice it at least. Also, your suggestion that 
the window may have an invalid size could also be the case, additionally 
revealed by logging the window frame. I have seen some auto layout wonkiness 
that forces  too-small frame, though not enough to  make it disappear. 

Keary Suska
Esoteritech, Inc.
"Demystifying technology for your home or business”



> On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:13 AM, Tom Doan via Cocoa-dev 
> <cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, but is that true? I've tried forcing the window off screen with 
> setFrame: and it still shows up (generally pinned to the top of the 
> visible frame) even though the [NSWindow frame] returns the 
> "off-screen" location that I programmed in. The only way I have 
> found to make the window "invisible" is to give it a non-positive size, 
> and then pulling it off the window menu still won't show it.
> 
>> Have you logged the window coordinates? It might be placed fully
>> offscreen, and that would produce the behavior you are seeing.
>> 
>> Keary Suska
>> Esoteritech, Inc.
>> "Demystifying technology for your home or business"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 13, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Tom Doan via Cocoa-dev
>>> <cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm having a problem with an application where a small percentage of
>>> users have one particular NSWindow type which doesn't show even
>>> though it goes through a makeKeyAndOrderFront. It's on the window
>>> list and will open if they do a tile, cascade or window switch
>>> operation, but doesn't come up initially. I can't reproduce this on
>>> any of my computers running three different flavors of MacOS
>>> (including Big Sur and Monterey). What should I be looking for that
>>> might cause this behavior.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Tom Doan
>>> ---
>>> 2717 Harrison St
>>> Evanston, IL 60201
>>> USA
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 2717 Harrison St
> Evanston, IL 60201
> USA
> 
> 
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