We know the true values for some small boards that were solved, and what some strong human players believed those values should be before they were solved. I think that for all cases the humans where either correct, or under-estimating. I don't remember any over-estimations.
Here are some cases where humans underestimated: size human migos 2x11 4 6 3x7 5 21 4x6 1 8 4x7 4 28 5x6 2 4 For more results see: http://erikvanderwerf.tengen.nl/mxngo.html Perhaps this can be considered an indication that weaker players tend to benefit less from the first player advantage. Best, Erik On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Justin Blank <justin.bl...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have repeatedly seen people assert that komi must be different for > players of different skill levels, and have repeatedly questioned it, but I > have never seen anyone try to substantiate the claim. People who believe it > find it obvious, but I don't. There are two pieces of evidence that I can > think of: > > 1) that I believe someone played near-random engines against each other, > and the correct komi was different (I cannot find where that was done). But > that's so far from even DDK play that it's pretty useless. > 2) I believe the old OGS (DGS?) forums included an analysis of their games > and what the correct komi was. I cannot confidently quote the results. If > those are the old OGS forums, I don't know if they even exist anymore. > > The data from go servers are freely available. Does white have a greater > advantage for weaker players? It doesn't seem so--anecdotally when players > posted their KGS stats, they varied a bit, but didn't seem to have a bias > for White. > > Of course, that's anecdata...anyone is welcome to prove or disprove this > old claim by analyzing the stats on KGS, or Tygem or wherever else. > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:03 AM, Petri Pitkanen <petri.t.pitka...@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Let alone we do not have even sufficient understanding of perfect play to >> say what is correct komi in absolute sense. Nor it is it even meaningful >> concept. Correct komi is a komi that produces about 50/50 result. Obviously >> komi that will result in 50/50 for professionals will probably favour white >> in your average weekend tournaments. Just like in chess 1st move advantage >> is clearly less meanigfull for weaker players than top professionals. >> >> So setting komi is not theroretical but statistical issue >> >> 2015-11-05 0:04 GMT+02:00 Hideki Kato <hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp>: >> >>> The correct komi value assuming both players are perfect. Or, black >>> utilize his advantage (maybe in an early stage) perfectly. Actual >>> players, even strong pros, are not perfect and cannot fully utilize >>> their advantages. As a conclusion, white is favored. >>> >>> Hideki >>> >>> Aja Huang: <CAJbO_wGku1M1hzDScsyhYq439BkN5m-hrne4ejT= >>> 2v52erc...@mail.gmail.com>: >>> >Hi all, >>> > >>> >As you might know the Chinese professional player Ke Jie is like an >>> >erupting volcano, triumphant in many domestic and international Go >>> >competitions. >>> > >>> >In the interview at >>> > >>> >http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2015-11-04/doc-ifxkhqea3033663.shtml >>> > >>> >Ke Jie said in his opinion on 19x19 komi 6.5 or 7.5 favors White. That >>> >seems consistent to MCTS's behavior? i.e. on the empty board, with komi >>> >7.5, Black's win rate is usually between 46% and 48% meaning White is >>> >ahead. As the current top pro, Ke Jie's viewpoint is very interesting. >>> :) >>> > >>> >Aja >>> >---- inline file >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Computer-go mailing list >>> >Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> >http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> -- >>> Hideki Kato <mailto:hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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