In the thirty years I lived in the USA, indeed I
was impressed by the distrust that Americans had
on anything done by government (except public
order and natural defense) and how things became
quite polarized. Instead of looking at the USA as
a capitalist country (laws of the market)
that would have socialized programs and
government interventions in questions related to
the common good immediately someone would come
and say that this was "socialism", when not "
communism". But the USA has some need and good
socialized programs, for instance
Social Security (what would happen to the elder
without it?), Medicare (the same), etc, etc. I
believe, and I am talking about beliefs here that
the world moves towards the laws of the market
when this responds to the common good and
socialized programs and government interventions
when this is not the case. Perhaps there is a way
to have health care without this being a
socialized program (everyone shares so that everyone
has access), but so far I am not convinced.
Regards
Marcio
At 09:06 AM 8/17/2007, Paul Meyer wrote:
Admission of Interest:Paula, I AM a socialist,
hopefullly a thoughful and knowledgeable
one. I personally think that national
healtcare is too important to use a means of
scoring cheap political points towards a larger
agenda. Even so, I have some observations on is
nat.health care 'as' socialism... Socialism is
used a as bugaboo in this country synonymoulsy
with Communism, you might as well say Satanic -
they both start with 'S'... In the rest of the
world, even conservatives will admit the
differences (e.g. commitment to democracy) There
is no question that all aspects of the welfare
state including are historically associated with
political movements associated with the
political Left which in most countries are
socialists. Health care is no
exception. However (!), national health care
always had a broad base of support, everywhere
outside the US, because even rich people
realized the public health consequences of lots
of sick poor people. (TB was the prime
motivating fear for the first national health's
and given the emergence of resistant strains of
TB we really should be motivated to get off our
collective behinds...) Whatever the form
univeral access takes it will require the
government restructuring of health care markets.
This will be attacked as socialist (and already
is) no matter what distinctions u.a. supporters
will make. Those folks who fear "creeping
socialism" will probably never support
u.a. Given that, I think the most effective
reply (rather than getting into a "is it" or
"isn't it" debate) will be , "So what. Whatever
it is, it works." And it will. -Paul Meyer -----
Original Message ---- From: Paula Minor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
[email protected] Sent: Wednesday,
August 15, 2007 9:39:25 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS]
Canada > I am not sure. When you talk
about rationing it sounds like > a bad thing.
But in terms of dollars and cents the Canadian
System > has to make sure that the tax
money is well spent. In the > US the private
sector has a lot of rationing by the
insurance > companies. And then there is
the case of the ones who don´t > have insurance
and have to use the Emergency Rooms to
have > care when things go out of hand.
Isn´t this a form of > rationing? A perverse
one? It absolutely is rationing.....we just
don't call it that. Depending on the procedure
and your insurance company (if you even have
one) you may or may not be allowed to have said
procedure. It's up to, not your doctor , a
medical professional, but your insurance
company employee who was hired off the
street. It happens way more than most people
want to think. If you are a patient in an HMO
where the dr. makes more money by NOT
prescribing expensive tests or sending you to a
specialist, you are rationed in your care.
National health care is NOT socialist or
socialized medicine. People with money can
still go where they wish and pay the
price. Even if you are using gov't paid care,
you could still choose your dr. It depends on
how it is set up. But, until a way is found to
get insurance companies and profit out of the
practice of medicine, I see no hope for us.
Paula IN/USA Life should NOT be a journey to the
grave with the intention of arriving safely in
an attractive and well preserved body, but
rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one
hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used
up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what
a ride!" Have a wonderful day!
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