I am a little bass-ackwards in this -- okay, not just in this. I started Kamer52 in a space I already owned. I live in a 400 year old house; the former stable has been used through the years as a lot fo things, including a car painting shop, a bicycle shop, and so forth. My in-laws converted it to two office spaces, a larger one which they used themselves. and a smaller one which they rented out.
One of the spaces came free and I decided to introduce a cooperative model of rural cowrking in it. Here's the first Kamer52, the street address is 52a: (You didn't think you would get away without looking at pics, did you)? https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/5571687063520066545 After about a year, the size of the space was becoming an issue -- there were only two rooms and the kitchen, and if somebody had a meeting in the large front space, nobody could use the smaller space in the back. So we moved in January to the new Kamer52, in 52b, the larger space which had just come free: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/5696360039235509537 My new tenant in the smaller space is a computer repair shop, he has jumped into the coworking thing with both feet and so now we have a situation that is sort of coworking with an anchor, in both spaces. Because I had to start with no community (I *know*, Alex, I *know*, but when I started I was only partially literate in Dutch and may I add that having immigrated here when I was pushing 40, starting with a community is not as easy as you might think? I knew no one, other than the parents of my kids' friends.) I don't think I could have done it if I had been renting. I only had to cover my mortgage; the utilities for a 400 year old building with half meter thick stone walls are complicated but in essence it is wired and plumbed as one building, there is no separation of the utilities and no duct work absent a couple sticks of dynamite. Because of the nature of the laws here, I have become quite chummy with the folks at City Hall who deal with taxes, permits, zoning, and so forth. Happily for me thay have in general been uncomprehending but helpful. One of the issues we have to talk about in the immediate future is that there are use taxes levied on each business registered at an address, and I offer a virtual office. I want them to bring those costs in and bill them to me so I can bill them through, otherwise it's too confusing. But they did cive me a permit to do retail in just the front room, so long as I don't turn it into a storefront, and they allow me to have periodic closed workshops in baking and cooking in the back room, as long as I don't turn it into a cafe or restaurant offering food to the public, and I call that flexible and am grateful for it. I got the retail permit so we could sell art. But I am considering offering the front room for use by people who sell handmade and crafted items; and also for use by my webshops as a pop-up. Indeed, if it doesn't work out, I will just rent it again, we rented it for years and I could just keep doing that. But it's more fun this way. One thing which is popular in the Netherlands is for folks to enter into a sort of partnership with property owners to improve the building as part of the rent; this is especially popular with maker spaces. (I wish I had a maker space, but we are in the center of town and I can't get the zoning). I think property owners need to get with the program and reconsider what it is that they are doing and offering: commercial real estate has not changed in its essence since the middle ages and I thinkit's about time it had an overhaul. IF there are any questions, fire away, I could go on and on but don't know what you would want to know. Jeannine On Apr 12, 5:12 pm, John Wilker <[email protected]> wrote: > We are currently renting our space. But buying it or another has been on our > minds since opening. Mainly so we're less limited in what we can do with and > to the building, as well as improvements. > > To Alex's point about buying a seat on the bus, you also typically don't want > to spend a ton of time and money, making someone else's bus pretty and super > awesome. > > The motorcycle museum below us (basement) may be moving, and the building > could someday be up for sale, so one option popping around has been securing > first right of refusal on the building, and being able to expand labs and > such downward when the museum leaves. > > One thing with buying, even if coworking doesn't work out, you have a > building to rent out, or do something with, for better or worse. > > John Wilker > Founder, 360|Conferences > (720) 381-2370 > twitter: jwilker (http://twitter.com/jwilker) > johnwilker.com (http://johnwilker.com/) | 360|MacDev (http://360macdev.com/) > | 360|Flex (http://360flex.com/) | 360|iDev (http://360idev.com/) > > > > > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: > > I'm actually curious about this too, specifically to hear from coworking > > spaces that bought early on or those who have graduated to buying. > > > We're entering into our 3rd major growth phase and the purchasing > > conversation was on the table - it's not left the table, but we've chosen > > renting (with a purchase option written into the lease) in favor of the > > timing of our needs. > > > Our reasons for buying also include the desire to be building equity as the > > business grows, but also to continue to anchor ourselves in the > > neighborhood that we've developed a relationship with over the last 4+ > > years. We've helped attract lots of new businesses to the area (which is > > mutually beneficial) and think that impact could increase with a statement > > of "permanence" that comes with purchasing. > > > That said, I got one particular piece of advice that's been resonating with > > me: don't buy a seat on the bus. > > > A lot of coworking spaces are a floor or a section of a building with other > > tenants in it. Our current building is like this as well, but is already > > condo-ized for potential purchase of a floor or floors. In conversations > > about buying, I've come to the conclusion that we should be buying the > > building, not a condo in it. > > > I'm not sure what the situations you're looking for include, but that > > caution has stuck with me as a good one to consider. > > > Having never bought property before, though I don't have any specific > > experience to share how it might impact a coworking space or what > > implications to consider - so I'd love to hear more experiences from that > > realm. > > > -Alex > > > -- > > /ah > > indyhall.org (http://indyhall.org) > > coworking in philadelphia > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Tricia Chirumbole wrote: > > > > Hello all!! > > > > I am planning on starting a coworking space in Pittsburgh, PA and have > > > started with a meetup group and events and jellies - I agree with > > > other posts about the value of building a broader coworking community > > > that extends beyond finite physical spaces. > > > > That being said, we do plan to ultimately open up a space. One of my > > > biggest questions is whether to buy or lease. It seems the predominant > > > model is leasing, which used to be my preference. However, I do have a > > > bias in general toward building equity vs. making money for landlords, > > > AND the market in Pittsburgh seems to be more amenable to buyers than > > > to renters at this time - I could be off on this as my research is far > > > from comprehensive, but this is the feel that I get. > > > > I have an interest in property in general and my partner has both > > > design and building skills - while we would not do it all on our own, > > > we do feel that we could make good use of a property irrespective of > > > the long-term prospects of its use as our coworking home. > > > > Any and all thoughts welcome and appreciated! I love this group - it > > > is so informative and valuable! Thanks in advance :) > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "Coworking" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected] > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Coworking" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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