This post doesn't speak to Janene and others who went from already owning to running a coworking space (great post and story, Janene, thank you for sharing it!). And it doesn't necessarily speak to Alex (or John and others) who already have a pretty good sense they are doing something right and who are taking a gradual approach owning (another great post that helped me a lot in thinking about these issues for myself). Or to the Google or NASA sponsored spaces with the resources to invest in a few black swans even if they all turn out to be white. It's mainly directed at Tricia and many of us with reasonable risk tolerance at relatively early stages of running coworking spaces.
I personally think it's a bad idea to buy, at least at the early stages of running a coworking space. I love the "don't buy a seat on the bus" metaphor. What resonated with me about it was not so much the idea that you should buy the whole bus (i.e., buy the whole building, as Indy Hall may be contemplating, so your fate is not tied to something so outside your control as on other passengers--or tenants). What resonated to me was the idea that business is itself a fleeting thing that you might just want to get off of when it comes to the next stop. This is particularly true of a new and rapidly changing industry like coworking. You buy a ticket for the bus, then getting off isn't so difficult. While so much of the coworking press sings coworking's virtues (how it transforms the lives of independent workers and how rapidly it is growing), we really have close to zero reliable information about (a) the relative pros and cons for work experience or (b) how much of the rapid growth reflects industry success as compared to industry failure (since in both cases we have overwhelmingly better access to the positive stories than to the negative ones). The large majority of spaces I have known are small and struggling for profitability or have already gone out of business. Relatively few of them, including spaces and space owners who I think are amazing, have done as well as they expected to or as the people in their circle of advisers thought they would given perceived conservative estimates. The spaces that have done all right, my space included, have--IMO-- been as much a product of good luck as anything else. And whatever the recipes for success have been will not be the same in the next few years given the rapidly changing nature of both the industry and worker/employer needs and solutions. To me that's the primary argument for leasing (at least until you know from experience you've got the formula right and you have the social and physical capital to justify the cost/risk). Will On Apr 13, 11:07 am, Jeannine <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh, yeah, I forgot: one very great advantage of owning is that you > can do whatever you want with the space (assuming it's legal I > mean) :-) I don't have any restrictions on opening times or access or > permitted uses or renovation or any of that; I am considering putting > solar panels on the roof for instance and I have a garden on the roof > as well as the one in back. Didn't have to check with the owner. :-) > > Jeannine > > On Apr 13, 11:03 am, Jeannine <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am a little bass-ackwards in this -- okay, not just in this. I > > started Kamer52 in a space I already owned. I live in a 400 year old > > house; the former stable has been used through the years as a lot fo > > things, including a car painting shop, a bicycle shop, and so forth. > > My in-laws converted it to two office spaces, a larger one which they > > used themselves. and a smaller one which they rented out. > > > One of the spaces came free and I decided to introduce a cooperative > > model of rural cowrking in it. Here's the first Kamer52, the street > > address is 52a: (You didn't think you would get away without looking > > at pics, did > > you)?https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/55716... > > > After about a year, the size of the space was becoming an issue -- > > there were only two rooms and the kitchen, and if somebody had a > > meeting in the large front space, nobody could use the smaller space > > in the back. So we moved in January to the new Kamer52, in 52b, the > > larger space which had just come > > free:https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/56963... > > > My new tenant in the smaller space is a computer repair shop, he has > > jumped into the coworking thing with both feet and so now we have a > > situation that is sort of coworking with an anchor, in both spaces. > > > Because I had to start with no community (I *know*, Alex, I *know*, > > but when I started I was only partially literate in Dutch and may I > > add that having immigrated here when I was pushing 40, starting with a > > community is not as easy as you might think? I knew no one, other > > than the parents of my kids' friends.) I don't think I could have done > > it if I had been renting. I only had to cover my mortgage; the > > utilities for a 400 year old building with half meter thick stone > > walls are complicated but in essence it is wired and plumbed as one > > building, there is no separation of the utilities and no duct work > > absent a couple sticks of dynamite. > > > Because of the nature of the laws here, I have become quite chummy > > with the folks at City Hall who deal with taxes, permits, zoning, and > > so forth. Happily for me thay have in general been uncomprehending > > but helpful. One of the issues we have to talk about in the immediate > > future is that there are use taxes levied on each business registered > > at an address, and I offer a virtual office. I want them to bring > > those costs in and bill them to me so I can bill them through, > > otherwise it's too confusing. > > > But they did cive me a permit to do retail in just the front room, so > > long as I don't turn it into a storefront, and they allow me to have > > periodic closed workshops in baking and cooking in the back room, as > > long as I don't turn it into a cafe or restaurant offering food to the > > public, and I call that flexible and am grateful for it. I got the > > retail permit so we could sell art. But I am considering offering the > > front room for use by people who sell handmade and crafted items; and > > also for use by my webshops as a pop-up. > > > Indeed, if it doesn't work out, I will just rent it again, we rented > > it for years and I could just keep doing that. But it's more fun this > > way. > > > One thing which is popular in the Netherlands is for folks to enter > > into a sort of partnership with property owners to improve the > > building as part of the rent; this is especially popular with maker > > spaces. (I wish I had a maker space, but we are in the center of town > > and I can't get the zoning). I think property owners need to get with > > the program and reconsider what it is that they are doing and > > offering: commercial real estate has not changed in its essence since > > the middle ages and I thinkit's about time it had an overhaul. > > > IF there are any questions, fire away, I could go on and on but don't > > know what you would want to know. > > > Jeannine > > On Apr 12, 5:12 pm, John Wilker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > We are currently renting our space. But buying it or another has been on > > > our minds since opening. Mainly so we're less limited in what we can do > > > with and to the building, as well as improvements. > > > > To Alex's point about buying a seat on the bus, you also typically don't > > > want to spend a ton of time and money, making someone else's bus pretty > > > and super awesome. > > > > The motorcycle museum below us (basement) may be moving, and the building > > > could someday be up for sale, so one option popping around has been > > > securing first right of refusal on the building, and being able to expand > > > labs and such downward when the museum leaves. > > > > One thing with buying, even if coworking doesn't work out, you have a > > > building to rent out, or do something with, for better or worse. > > > > John Wilker > > > Founder, 360|Conferences > > >(720) 381-2370begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (720) 381-2370 > > > twitter: jwilker (http://twitter.com/jwilker) > > > johnwilker.com (http://johnwilker.com/) | 360|MacDev > > > (http://360macdev.com/) | 360|Flex (http://360flex.com/) | 360|iDev > > > (http://360idev.com/) > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: > > > > I'm actually curious about this too, specifically to hear from > > > > coworking spaces that bought early on or those who have graduated to > > > > buying. > > > > > We're entering into our 3rd major growth phase and the purchasing > > > > conversation was on the table - it's not left the table, but we've > > > > chosen renting (with a purchase option written into the lease) in favor > > > > of the timing of our needs. > > > > > Our reasons for buying also include the desire to be building equity as > > > > the business grows, but also to continue to anchor ourselves in the > > > > neighborhood that we've developed a relationship with over the last 4+ > > > > years. We've helped attract lots of new businesses to the area (which > > > > is mutually beneficial) and think that impact could increase with a > > > > statement of "permanence" that comes with purchasing. > > > > > That said, I got one particular piece of advice that's been resonating > > > > with me: don't buy a seat on the bus. > > > > > A lot of coworking spaces are a floor or a section of a building with > > > > other tenants in it. Our current building is like this as well, but is > > > > already condo-ized for potential purchase of a floor or floors. In > > > > conversations about buying, I've come to the conclusion that we should > > > > be buying the building, not a condo in it. > > > > > I'm not sure what the situations you're looking for include, but that > > > > caution has stuck with me as a good one to consider. > > > > > Having never bought property before, though I don't have any specific > > > > experience to share how it might impact a coworking space or what > > > > implications to consider - so I'd love to hear more experiences from > > > > that realm. > > > > > -Alex > > > > > -- > > > > /ah > > > > indyhall.org (http://indyhall.org) > > > > coworking in philadelphia > > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Tricia Chirumbole wrote: > > > > > > Hello all!! > > > > > > I am planning on starting a coworking space in Pittsburgh, PA and have > > > > > started with a meetup group and events and jellies - I agree with > > > > > other posts about the value of building a broader coworking community > > > > > that extends beyond finite physical spaces. > > > > > > That being said, we do plan to ultimately open up a space. One of my > > > > > biggest questions is whether to buy or lease. It seems the predominant > > > > > model is leasing, which used to be my preference. However, I do have a > > > > > bias in general toward building equity vs. making money for landlords, > > > > > AND the market in Pittsburgh seems to be more amenable to buyers than > > > > > to renters at this time - I could be off on this as my research is far > > > > > from comprehensive, but this is the feel that I get. > > > > > > I have an interest in property in general and my partner has both > > > > > design and building skills - while we would not do it all on our own, > > > > > we do feel that we could make good use of a property irrespective of > > > > > the long-term prospects of its use as our coworking home. > > > > > > Any and all thoughts welcome and appreciated! I love this group - it > > > > > is so informative and valuable! Thanks in advance :) > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups "Coworking" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > > For more options, visit this group > > > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "Coworking" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected] > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > For more options, visit this group > > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. 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